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C&R FFL

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by smlemk111, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. smlemk111

    smlemk111 corbett oregon New Member

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    Can a C&R FFL purchase a firearm in Washington as long as it is C&R eligible with no further background check? Thanks
     
  2. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Yes. The normal method is to exchange copies of your C&R and then log the firearm in and/or out of your bound book.
     
  3. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Just to provide a reference to what 308 said - this is from the ATF:

    Q: Is there a specific license that permits a collector to acquire firearms in interstate commerce?
    Yes. The person may obtain a collector’s license; however, this license applies only to transactions in curio or relic firearms. The principal advantage of a collector’s license is that a licensed collector can acquire curios or relics in interstate commerce.
     
  4. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I believe the question has to do with the new WA I-594 law. I believe the answer, if that is the question, no one is 100% sure because of how poorly the law is written.
     
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  5. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Does I-594 have anything to say about C&R transactions? Since the C&R is a Federal License, can a state pass a law that would supersede the federal license?
     
  6. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    WA law does not supersede, but states are allowed to make laws more restrictive them Federal laws. Look at all the states that have more restrictive laws.......
     
  7. smlemk111

    smlemk111 corbett oregon New Member

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    Thanks for the replies I have a C&R FFL and was wondering how it is going to work with Washington's new law.
     
  8. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Nwcid seems to have nailed it when saying that no one is 100% sure. RCW 9.41.113(1) seems to make an exemption for C&R licenses under federal law, but later speaks about 'licensed dealers' and 'unlicensed persons'. Under I-594 a C&R does not seem to make one a licensed dealer.

    Chapter 9.41 RCW FIREARMS AND DANGEROUS WEAPONS

    18 U.S. Code Chapter 44 - FIREARMS
     
  9. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    no.

    this is not the exemption you are looking for.

    594 was very carefully and deliberately written to require C&R FFL owners to go through background checks for every sale. C&R FFL is not exempt.

    sorry to burst your bubble.
     
  10. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any restrictions on taking my C&R out of state, using it to buy a C&R eligible firearm and returning with it.
     
  11. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    be careful which state you buy it from. in some states (eg NY) it may not be legal for you to take possession of the firearm.
     
  12. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    So it sounds like you are also saying a person in Wa. State with a C&R cannot purchase a C&R eligible firearm from, say, aimsurplus.com in Ohio without going through a background check?

    I don't see restrictions listed on line for Washington


    Edited:
    Q: Are licensed collectors transfers of curio or relic firearms subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees?

    No. Transfers of curio or relic firearms by licensed collectors are not subject to the requirements of the Brady law. It is, however, unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of persons prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.
    Firearms Q&As | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#brady-law)
     
  13. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    So far so good for the C&R exemption.


    This is where it falls apart for the C&R licensee.


    Under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 923(a) a licensed dealer makes money or their livelihood from selling firearms. A C&R license does not allow you to do so.

    A C&R license does not appear to fit any of the exemptions for a background check under the law as changed by I-594.
     
  14. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    Of course, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer. If I travel to a wild and strange place like Oregon or Idaho and use my C&R to purchase an eligible fire arm from a dealer or another C&R licensee I cannot see where the law has been violated. Driving it back or shipping it to myself AFTER it is purchased shouldn't be a problem either.

    Of course Many 01 FFL's have no clue.
     
  15. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I doubt it was done on purpose. Most likely just the ignorance of the writers. I would bet a lot of money that not one of them had even heard of a C&R license.

    Just the usual problem of people blinded by their emotions not even attempting to get a complete picture of what their law will do. A mix of the usual ignorance and stupidity and the desire to control people that drive so many of our laws.

    Im sure there is no actual data but I imagine if one has a C&R license they are least likely to cause a crime.
     
  16. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    very true, actually the law is a lot of cut and paste. To me it looks like it was put together hastily with little thought. Several phrases that were actually written make you stop and say "wtf were they thinking?".
     
  17. smlemk111

    smlemk111 corbett oregon New Member

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    Ok very interesting, I live in Corbett Oregon. What about buying a C&R firearm from a Washington resident who does not h,old any type of FFL, I purchase the firearm online , send him a copy of my FFL and have him ship it to me in Oregon. I have done this several time in the past not just to Washington but to other states as well. Where does the purchase take place in Oregon or Washington and would I as the buyer have to get a background check of the seller? Or would the seller have to get a background check on me? Or both?
     
  18. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    Near as I can tell only the buyer is subject to BGC, as you are not a resident of WA I can't see how you are subject to their laws.
    Additionally I don't see in the law where shipping out is even regulated, only shipping into the state.
     
  19. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    yes. that is what i am saying.

    the text of 594 restricts it.
     
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  20. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    it was done on purpose. they very, very carefully wrote the text to exclude C&R license holders. they were very deliberate. it was not an accident or ignorance. they knew exactly what they were doing.