Bystander Intervention Training

[Catfishmoon]

It appears to me that the mother, the three year and the six year old, also had no idea about what was going on, other than they were being attacked by a delusional stranger.

 

[solv3nt]

I highly doubt the accuracy of your claim that 99% of attempted kidnappings of children are custody related...
The story also states the attacker appeared delusional and was physically assaulting the mother.

You're in Seattle, which is very similar to Portland in the way it's governed. Let's use this as a very real hypothetical.

The attacker is family member, lover, or the rightful guardian of the children. You have now inserted yourself into a situation that you don't have any facts, other than what is presented to you at that very moment.

Right wrong or indifferent, what if a weapon is presented? You still don't have the full story.

You made your choice, you defended yourself. Now the DA is pressing charges, along with the perp/relatives suing you. The perp turns out to be a gay lover, now you're a bigot, you lose your job and you now have multiple legal battles.

The attacker is a family member or lover, now the assaulted attacks you because you hurt their loved one.

With all of the possible scenarios, was it worth it? You have moments to decide, and you won't know everything until the end. Even if you make the right choice, you're not the police, nor do you have any legal immunity for your chosen actions. Again, the DA will charge you in both Portland and Seattle.

 

[Member 34319]

The real question, do you think any of this experience changed this ladies mind about anything going on with in the city she calls home?

 

[solv3nt]

The real question, do you think any of this experience changed this ladies mind about anything going on with in the city she calls home?

I doubt it.

 

[Member 34319]

I doubt it.

Yep, usually they double down after an experience like this.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I carry a gun to help myself and my family ( not in that order ) escape bad situations. That is all. Get the hell out of there.

Hope they aren't a bystander.

 

[titsonritz]

If I'm intervening in Portland, it'll be with Killdozer 2.0.

 

[wired]

I can go a little further in my quest to be as far away from Portland as possible but I get wet if I go another hundred miles.

 

[Koda]

The irony of the Oregonian suggesting public intervention anywhere in Multnomah county is so overwhelming I will just start with noting todays headliner is about how people are leaving Multnomah county in record numbers.
I cant decide if the ones leaving are the last of the conservative holdouts that finally gave up or if its so bad even the moderate liberals are looking for greener grass.

So Portlanders voted for this bubblegum on multiple levels they can learn to defend their familys on her own. The witness that left the lady probably knows why.

 

[Catfishmoon]

You're in Seattle, which is very similar to Portland in the way it's governed. Let's use this as a very real hypothetical.

The attacker is family member, lover, or the rightful guardian of the children. You have now inserted yourself into a situation that you don't have any facts, other than what is presented to you at that very moment.

Right wrong or indifferent, what if a weapon is presented? You still don't have the full story.

You made your choice, you defended yourself. Now the DA is pressing charges, along with the perp/relatives suing you. The perp turns out to be a gay lover, now you're a bigot, you lose your job and you now have multiple legal battles.

The attacker is a family member or lover, now the assaulted attacks you because you hurt their loved one.

With all of the possible scenarios, was it worth it? You have moments to decide, and you won't know everything until the end. Even if you make the right choice, you're not the police, nor do you have any legal immunity for your chosen actions. Again, the DA will charge you in both Portland and Seattle.

The individual bystander would need to make a quick decision whether or not to involve themselves in any type of similar situation.
If my instinct was a female and young children were being attacked, I would hope I would intervene. I have not personally been in that situation, so I could not assure what my actions would actually be.
I know that I would prefer to error in defense of the woman and children, then to error by doing nothing. In this particular case it seems the attacker was an individual with obvious mental illness.

 

[Knobgoblin]

The individual bystander would need to make a quick decision whether or not to involve themselves in any type of similar situation.
If my instinct was a female and young children were being attacked, I would hope I would intervene. I have not personally been in that situation, so I could not assure what my actions would actually be.
I know that I would prefer to error in defense of the woman and children, then to error by doing nothing. In this particular case it seems the attacker was an individual with obvious mental illness.

Your instincts are, and would be , morally correct.

Your regret after the situation went sideways would be intellectually correct.

 

[Catfishmoon]

You're in Seattle, which is very similar to Portland in the way it's governed. Let's use this as a very real hypothetical.

The attacker is family member, lover, or the rightful guardian of the children. You have now inserted yourself into a situation that you don't have any facts, other than what is presented to you at that very moment.

Right wrong or indifferent, what if a weapon is presented? You still don't have the full story.

You made your choice, you defended yourself. Now the DA is pressing charges, along with the perp/relatives suing you. The perp turns out to be a gay lover, now you're a bigot, you lose your job and you now have multiple legal battles.

The attacker is a family member or lover, now the assaulted attacks you because you hurt their loved one.

With all of the possible scenarios, was it worth it? You have moments to decide, and you won't know everything until the end. Even if you make the right choice, you're not the police, nor do you have any legal immunity for your chosen actions. Again, the DA will charge you in both Portland and Seattle.

I am honestly curious, I am not trying to be a smart aleck. I do not know your family situation, but if that was your wife being attacked and someone with mental illness was trying to abduct your kids, wouldn't you hope that somebody would help? Obviously, you would.
If it were your family, would you be understanding in that no stranger who witnessed the occurence attempted to help them?

 

[Koda]

If it were your family, would you be understanding in that no stranger who witnessed the occurence attempted to help them?

If you saw someone yelling for their kids then attack someone holding 2 kids behind their back defending themselves which person would you intervene in support on their behalf?

 

[Knobgoblin]

This particular situation is insanely unlikely. Which is why it's so interesting. You and your family are in far greater danger from " normal " people driving a vehicle. Just hard facts

 

[Bobbygun]

This particular situation is insanely unlikely. Which is why it's so interesting. You and your family are in far greater danger from " normal " people driving a vehicle. Just hard facts

INCORRECT!

It has been my observation that there are zero normal people driving these days.

 

[solv3nt]

I am honestly curious, I am not trying to be a smart aleck. I do not know your family situation, but if that was your wife being attacked and someone with mental illness was trying to abduct your kids, wouldn't you hope that somebody would help? Obviously, you would.
If it were your family, would you be understanding in that no stranger who witnessed the occurence attempted to help them?

I expect my wife to take care of herself with the kids.

 

[solv3nt]

Also, if you choose to intervene, most if not all, people on this forum carry a firearm. You have now introduced a firearm to the situation that you have chosen to insert yourself into.

Now, let's use this particular crazy person as an example, the crazy person attacks you. Are you physically fit enough to not use deadly force? Again, if you use any force, you will be prosecuted and likely sued.

As another equally likely scenario, not as likely in Portland as the cops don't show up when called, but say you do use your firearm, either by shooting it or just as a deterrent. The cops roll up and see a guy with a gun after an emergency call of a woman with kids being accosted. The cops then shoot you. A similar situation happened not to long ago and an off duty police officer was killed outside his home after defending both him and his family from an intruder.

While it would be nice for someone to intervene if my wife and kids are being attacked, the reality is your security is your responsibility.

 

[solv3nt]

If you saw someone yelling for their kids then attack someone holding 2 kids behind their back defending themselves which person would you intervene in support on their behalf?

There was a dad with an infant a few years ago, and a lady tried to claim the baby was his hers. Bystanders took the child from him with force and the child was almost kidnapped. If you don't know the facts, it's better not to insert yourself.

 

[Koda]

There was a dad with an infant a few years ago, and a lady tried to claim the baby was his. Bystanders took the child from him with force and the child was almost kidnapped. If you don't know the facts, it's better but to insert yourself.

And if the dad was armed he would have been legally justified..... I dont even think a civil suit would fly in such a case.

(I think you made a typo "his"? )

 

[solv3nt]

And if the dad was armed he would have been legally justified..... I dont even think a civil suit would fly in such a case.

(I think you made a typo "his"? )

Ha, she tried to claim it was hers.