Byrna Less Lethal review

[Alexx1401]

Byrna Less Lethal review

A good while back there was a thread going where someone had asked about these. The idea was very interesting to me for one offspring who is anti gun. I ordered one and after a couple months of the co saying they were still catching up I got leery and pulled the order since they had charged my card.

So late last year Amazon pops up showing me they are selling them. So I ordered one to test out. Here is my take

Pros

Works great. It does what it claims. Using some of their ammo made to cause pain they would hurt far more than I was willing to test on myself. Tried some of the .68 stuff I have for my old school markers here I use to run off wildlife and they work great in these.

Bought some of the OC balls for it, they too do what they claim. At about 30ft I could mag dump and if some scum was there easily hit them in the face every time. This is what I told the kid to do if they use this.

Con's

The things are LARGE, larger than many full size pistols. Not nearly as heavy but to carry one would be like carrying a full size G21 though not as heavy by a lot. A holster made to fit a G21 that was soft for IWB held the Byrna with minor alterations. So bought one made for it that of course works better in case the kid does decide to carry it ever.

Price. I could buy her a nice handgun for what these run. The OC ammo was very pricey too. So sent her some of the "practice ammo" in .68 I use here to run off Canada Geese to practice with since its cheap and can be used over and over.

So bottom line NOT a replacement for a firearm but sure would beat dial a prayer for someone who just will not own a gun.

Pic I took of it before sending it on is next to an old Ruger P89 to give some perspective of size. The one I bought is the slightly extended version that uses the standard CO2 cartridges. The original used a proprietary cartridge you had to buy from Bynya and they were of course pricey.

Again I am not suggesting these would replace a hand gun and I do not (as far as I know) own a piece of the Co so not trying to endorse them. If anyone else has family who will not own a gun? One of these would in my opinion be better than nothing.

Read More

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Byrna Less Lethal review

A good while back there was a thread going where someone had asked about these. The idea was very interesting to me for one offspring who is anti gun. I ordered one and after a couple months of the co saying they were still catching up I got leery and pulled the order since they had charged my card.

So late last year Amazon pops up showing me they are selling them. So I ordered one to test out. Here is my take

Pros

Works great. It does what it claims. Using some of their ammo made to cause pain they would hurt far more than I was willing to test on myself. Tried some of the .68 stuff I have for my old school markers here I use to run off wildlife and they work great in these.

Bought some of the OC balls for it, they too do what they claim. At about 30ft I could mag dump and if some scum was there easily hit them in the face every time. This is what I told the kid to do if they use this.

Con's

The things are LARGE, larger than many full size pistols. Not nearly as heavy but to carry one would be like carrying a full size G21 though not as heavy by a lot. A holster made to fit a G21 that was soft for IWB held the Byrna with minor alterations. So bought one made for it that of course works better in case the kid does decide to carry it ever.

Price. I could buy her a nice handgun for what these run. The OC ammo was very pricey too. So sent her some of the "practice ammo" in .68 I use here to run off Canada Geese to practice with since its cheap and can be used over and over.

So bottom line NOT a replacement for a firearm but sure would beat dial a prayer for someone who just will not own a gun.

Pic I took of it before sending it on is next to an old Ruger P89 to give some perspective of size. The one I bought is the slightly extended version that uses the standard CO2 cartridges. The original used a proprietary cartridge you had to buy from Bynya and they were of course pricey.

Again I am not suggesting these would replace a hand gun and I do not (as far as I know) own a piece of the Co so not trying to endorse them. If anyone else has family who will not own a gun? One of these would in my opinion be better than nothing.

View attachment 1361174

Good review thx. How would you reckon it would work for thieves actively stealing cat converter in driveway if you were above them a couple stories shooting out a window? Let's assume they are unarmed for sake of argument. Also assuming they are out of pepper spray range.

I've now seen many examples in PDX of people chasing off cat thieves Fe with rock salt 12 gauge, holding them at gunpoint with a 22 rifle etc and none of those homeowners/business owners have been charged. So I'm always on the lookout for possible options to use while a real rifle, pcc etc is sitting in your lap ready if needed.

Rock salt example:

 

[bradsteen]

I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet, but will be getting one. Not as a replacement for a gun, but as one more tool in the toolbox, just in case.

 

[Alexx1401]

Good review thx. How would you reckon it would work for thieves actively stealing cat converter in driveway if you were above them a couple stories shooting out a window? Let's assume they are unarmed for sake of argument. Also assuming they are out of pepper spray range.

I've now seen many examples in PDX of people chasing off cat thieves Fe with rock salt 12 gauge, holding them at gunpoint with a 22 rifle etc and none of those homeowners/business owners have been charged. So I'm always on the lookout for possible options to use while a real rifle, pcc etc is sitting in your lap ready if needed.

Rock salt example:

For that it would be FAR cheaper to just buy a paintball marker. They do the same thing for MUCH less. The ammo works in those. The only thing to caution here is locals. Some places the scum who you shoot with one may call 911 on you.

 

[L84Cabo]

Con: Just because you don't see a gun, doesn't mean the person you're about to shoot with a pepper ball doesn't have one. You draw your pepper gun to gas him and he draws his real gun to shoot you...because to the bad guy, it looks like you're drawing a real gun.

Con: I have my doubts that "Joe Average" could hit someone in the face with a pepper ball in a stressful/low light situation and without any shooting experience. Plus what happens if you hit them in the eye? Could you take out an eye with a pepper ball...and then get sued for it? And how effective is a pepper ball if you hit them center mass instead of in the face?

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

They make smaller versions

https://www.amazon.com/Umarex-Caliber-Pepper-Round-Pistol/dp/B08SJFKPXH/?th=1

 

[washagonian]

For me, this is an expensive gimmick.

Better option with better results, in my opinion, would be:

Mark IV size (3.0 oz) .4% OC spray (see photo for example).

• Smaller
• Lighter
• Cheaper
• Easy to carry and conceal
• Proven form-factor
• 20-25 short bursts - out to 10-15 feet
• Can't be mistaken for a real firearm, (so you don't get shot by a bad guy, or an innocent good-guy, for that matter)

I carry a Mark III size (1.5 oz).

Take what you like an leave the rest.

Cheers.

 

[washagonian]

If you don't want to carry the OC spray, but rather have it at home or somewhere close by incase you need it, then get this at Amazon for $45 (or any other brand).

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Fwiw we use the little POM stream oc spray on our person. Also have bear spray in car and near front door.

For us in PDX our thinking is you have to be ready with deadly force first in case you need it, but then if the situation is unarmed druggy/mental this is a fall back. Just what we do, may not be preference for the next person and also based on what likely to run into where we live for now.

 

[Alexx1401]

Con: Just because you don't see a gun, doesn't mean the person you're about to shoot with a pepper ball doesn't have one. You draw your pepper gun to gas him and he draws his real gun to shoot you...because to the bad guy, it looks like you're drawing a real gun.

Con: I have my doubts that "Joe Average" could hit someone in the face with a pepper ball in a stressful/low light situation and without any shooting experience. Plus what happens if you hit them in the eye? Could you take out an eye with a pepper ball...and then get sued for it? And how effective is a pepper ball if you hit them center mass instead of in the face?

If they can't hit with this they can't hit with a gun so moot point. There are a LOT of people who should not carry a gun though. As for the kid I bought this for if she fears for her life and shoots him in the eye that is exactly what I want her to do. These are not toys to play with so if you have the idea they are? No, they are not intended at least not by me, to go play shoot each other with. Hopefully she will practice with the cheap practice ammo I sent along with the gun. If one day she gets over her "I will not have a gun" that would be even better. For now this will beat calling dial a prayer if she ever needs it. Best case is it never gets used other than to practice. Quite surprising that anyone thinks gun work for people with no experience though.

 

[Alexx1401]

They make smaller versions

https://www.amazon.com/Umarex-Caliber-Pepper-Round-Pistol/dp/B08SJFKPXH/?th=1

Not surprised others are jumping into the market the way the damn things were selling

 

[bradsteen]

I see it as having limited applicability but potentially useful in a few specific scenarios, mainly social unrest. It's also useful to have defensive tools that others can use without giving them access to guns, such as teenage children.

 

[Alexx1401]

I see it as having limited applicability but potentially useful in a few specific scenarios, mainly social unrest. It's also useful to have defensive tools that others can use without giving them access to guns, such as teenage children.

I had never thought of that, teen kids. Back when mine were young I had a real struggle with when to allow them access to a firearm. We finally settled on allowing them access to one of the "gun boxes" for a gun kept there when they got to where Wife and I felt comfortable leaving them alone for a night. Even then it was a struggle with me with "kids being kids" kind of thing. For a long time before that I had a gun box they I "assume" did not know about. After we got our first cell I figured if they called us while we were out I was going to tell them where the box was and the code to open it till the good guys showed up. I was glad I never had to do it though and did keep that box where I would know if one of them found it and had been trying to get into it. Damn mind field now days with kids.
If I had to raise some again one of these would be tempting for that role. Have some bonus money coming from work that I always put on Amazon. Think I will buy another of these for me here where I live. I often carry an old M-series Taser with me as a less lethal alternative for when I have to run off the local 2 legged wildlife. After playing with the one I bought for the anti gun kid I think I will get another for me here. Maybe it will keep me from the hassle of having to shoot one of the scum who show up here now and then since they are pretty much given the run of the city now.

 

[WillametteWill]

Starting from here, I respect others opinions as I'm not always right (I think I am, but proven wrong daily )

Can't be mistaken for a real firearm, (so you don't get shot by a bad guy, or an innocent good-guy, for that matter)

This^^^ (regarding the better IMHO pepper spray option)

You are brining something that looks dangerously similar to a gun to a not yet gunfight. Predicting this company eventually gets sued out of existence or becomes uninsurable. LE applications are different from the armed citizen world. There was a recent case, posted in NWF IIRC, where a bad guy shot a victim of the crime he committed and the DA ruled it self defense because the "victim" did not have the right to use deadly force as "bad guy" was retreating. (DIfferent but with a very related thought process.) I can see a similar situation happening with one of these. Especially if it is one of the "gun colored" models but even in bright orange, you can get any gun Cerakoted in any color now days.

Example: Cat Converter theif at work. You show up with one of these. He thinks you are pointing a real gun him for a property crime where deadly force is not justified (we are not in Texas and it's not dark). He shoots you to defend his life. Very likely viewed as justified and good guy is dead or injured.

So bottom line NOT a replacement for a firearm but sure would beat dial a prayer for someone who just will not own a gun.

Thank you for the thoughtful review Alexx. I think this could be a point in limited situations such as at home. Someone not willing / comfortable owning a firearm but wants something in their home, could work and I think the downsides are greatly reduced. Just think it would behoove potential owners to consider the repercussions as folks who are likely to be buyers are unlikely to be savvy in realm of legal considerations.

 

[bradsteen]

Starting from here, I respect others opinions as I'm not always right (I think I am, but proven wrong daily )


This^^^ (regarding the better IMHO pepper spray option)

You are brining something that looks dangerously similar to a gun to a not yet gunfight. Predicting this company eventually gets sued out of existence or becomes uninsurable. LE applications are different from the armed citizen world. There was a recent case, posted in NWF IIRC, where a bad guy shot a victim of the crime he committed and the DA ruled it self defense because the "victim" did not have the right to use deadly force as "bad guy" was retreating. (DIfferent but with a very related thought process.) I can see a similar situation happening with one of these. Especially if it is one of the "gun colored" models but even in bright orange, you can get any gun Cerakoted in any color now days.

Example: Cat Converter theif at work. You show up with one of these. He thinks you are pointing a real gun him for a property crime where deadly force is not justified (we are not in Texas and it's not dark). He shoots you to defend his life. Very likely viewed as justified and good guy is dead or injured.


Thank you for the thoughtful review Alexx. I think this could be a point in limited situations such as at home. Someone not willing / comfortable owning a firearm but wants something in their home, could work and I think the downsides are greatly reduced. Just think it would behoove potential owners to consider the repercussions as folks who are likely to be buyers are unlikely to be savvy in realm of legal considerations.

Toy manufacturers have been making realistic looking fake guns for years and are still in business, so I doubt they'll get put under by a lawsuit for that. However I agree with your point that it could be mistaken for a real gun, which could put the user in danger of applying it in a situation where force is not justified. I would recommend people only get one that is brightly colored so as to visually distinguish it from real guns. IMO a gun shaped less lethal tool should never be tactical black.

 

[Alexx1401]

S


Thank you for the thoughtful review Alexx. I think this could be a point in limited situations such as at home. Someone not willing / comfortable owning a firearm but wants something in their home, could work and I think the downsides are greatly reduced. Just think it would behoove potential owners to consider the repercussions as folks who are likely to be buyers are unlikely to be savvy in realm of legal considerations.

Sadly not much we can do about people who buy anything that can be dangerous. Already see some gun owners saying the problem with these is someone will buy one and shoot someone in the eye
Yet I have to assume these guys own a firearm.
So if you shoot someone in the eye with your firearm that's fine.
Idiots will be idiots and not much to do about that. I VERY much wish we would go back to personal responsibility but, sadly that is a dirty thing to say now days.
The kid I bought the one for will not own a gun. They are in there mid 30's so they get to make their own choices in life and I can't change that. She told me she would accept one of these so she has it now. Have not asked since I sent it if she is practicing. Hope she is and hope she never needs it. If she ever does? May save her life may not but, I can't make her keep a gun.
I have no doubt someone will if they have not already bought one of these and think its some kind of toy and hurt someone. If it has not happened already I am sure some moron will sue the Co that makes them when they do something stupid. Sadly this is the world we live in now. There is a reason the hair dryer has a tag on the cord that's very hard to cut off warning me not to use it in the shower and the lawn mower has to have an add on to not shut off when I let go of the handle.

 

[WillametteWill]

Toy manufacturers have been making realistic looking fake guns for years and are still in business, so I doubt they'll get put under by a lawsuit for that.

Actually, toy manufactures have had the bubblegum sued out of them over this, which is why they are brightly colored, red tip, etc. Some have stopped making them completely. But I get your point. I think the difference is that this is intended to be used in specific situations where the confusion may result (this is what the plaintiff's expert witnesses are going to point out anyway).

Already see some gun owners saying the problem with these is someone will buy one and shoot someone in the eye
Yet I have to assume these guys own a firearm.
So if you shoot someone in the eye with your firearm that's fine.

Understand. My old department shot someone with a less lethal bean bag (that they could have shot with real guns) and he ducked. You guessed it, shot his eye out. Lawsuit followed costing lots. I believe the department prevailed but still cost a number with many zeros behind it to defend and the officer could have been on the hook for punitive damages.

For your specific situation, completely understand the better-than-nothing logic and can't fault the thought process. Unfortunately, many folks don't see the big picture with this (just like I don't see it with other subjects that I'm not into). Again, I really appreciate sharing this information and the input from everyone else, it makes me think and consider valid and valuable perspectives.

 

[Alexx1401]

Actually, toy manufactures have had the bubblegum sued out of them over this, which is why they are brightly colored, red tip, etc. Some have stopped making them completely. But I get your point. I think the difference is that this is intended to be used in specific situations where the confusion may result (this is what the plaintiff's expert witnesses are going to point out anyway).

Understand. My old department shot someone with a less lethal bean bag (that they could have shot with real guns) and he ducked. You guessed it, shot his eye out. Lawsuit followed costing lots. I believe the department prevailed but still cost a number with many zeros behind it to defend and the officer could have been on the hook for punitive damages.

For your specific situation, completely understand the better-than-nothing logic and can't fault the thought process. Unfortunately, many folks don't see the big picture with this (just like I don't see it with other subjects that I'm not into). Again, I really appreciate sharing this information and the input from everyone else, it makes me think and consider valid and valuable perspectives.

Not long after they got those paintball markers with OC balls some gal in Seattle got it in the eye with one and the crying of course began. Can't remember how it all shook out. At the time I was hoping she would get squat since she was part of one of those left wing kook riots from before they started calling themselves pantifa. All I could think is you chose to stand there throwing stuff at Cops, you lost an eye, tough. Stupidity should be painful.

 

[Darby Darrow]

Byrna Less Lethal review



Bought some of the OC balls for it, they too do what they claim. At about 30ft I could mag dump and if some scum was there easily hit them in the face every time. This is what I told the kid to do if they use this.

I don't have any experience with the Byrna, but have considerable experience with Pepperball launchers and their deployment.

I would be careful in teaching your "kid" how to deploy this tool.

As an example, you mentioned that you advised your kid to mag dump into the face of a scum was "there". I believe that it would be reasonable to advise someone to shoot an attacker who presented a lethal force threat in the face with the Byrna. But since the Byrne is marketed as a less lethal tool, someone, your kid maybe, might see a scum at 30 feet away who is being scummy, but not posing a lethal force threat.

Based on the totality of the circumstances it may be appropriate to deploy the launcher into the suspect's upper body below the neckline but reckless to advise them to mag dump into the face.

 

[Alexx1401]

I don't have any experience with the Byrna, but have considerable experience with Pepperball launchers and their deployment.

I would be careful in teaching your "kid" how to deploy this tool.

As an example, you mentioned that you advised your kid to mag dump into the face of a scum was "there". I believe that it would be reasonable to advise someone to shoot an attacker who presented a lethal force threat in the face with the Byrna. But since the Byrne is marketed as a less lethal tool, someone, your kid maybe, might see a scum at 30 feet away who is being scummy, but not posing a lethal force threat.

Based on the totality of the circumstances it may be appropriate to deploy the launcher into the suspect's upper body below the neckline but reckless to advise them to mag dump into the face.

The "kid" is mid 30's, will not own a gun which I wish she would. The gun I sent her is for use where if she had one she would be shooting someone with a firearm. If scum ends up blinded tough. It is amazing how many people on a gun group seem to suddenly be concerned about some scum getting hurt. I hope none of the people that worried about scum own a gun.