National Buying Long Gun From Out of State FFL Post Measure 114

[Alexx1401]

You are in a bind if you have no guns and want one most of us just want some of the latest greatest but we defiantly have stuff !

Sadly the people who are going to get caught "pants down" are many of the ones who ignored this and allowed it. Since voters gave the people who made the mess with crime another term it will only get worse. Slowly those who had no gun will either become a victim or will finally wake up and decide 911 is not a solution. when they go to buy one they will find out what they asked for and be shocked. Sad but, sometimes a little pain is the only way people learn.
As for gun owners who end up in a bind a LOT of them supported this. They toss their ballots in the trash, or never bother to register, telling anyone who will listen its a waste of time. So they too get to see what they asked for. You will hear a LOT of them over the top angry when they want to buy. Best part? This will do nothing for crime as anyone with a functioning brain knows. So the people who brought you this will come back for more. More laws, more restrictions, and they will not stop till people wake up and decide to take part in voting. So enjoy.

 

[Alexx1401]

Sigh. Guess that answers my question about driving to WA to buy long guns. Dammit.

Idaho it is then I guess. Gonna be a long drive.

Before you gas up the car may be wise to check first. Any FFL in ID you show OR ID to has to follow OR law to sell you a gun.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Before you gas up the car may be wise to check first. Any FFL in ID you show OR ID to has to follow OR law to sell you a gun.

I'm assuming this is Federal law then. When did it change?

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm assuming this is Federal law then. When did it change?

Again not an FFL holder, did not stay in a Holiday Inn. I have LONG been told any FFL holder has to follow not only Fed law but also the laws of the state the buyer is a resident of. When WA passed 1639 some said they tried to go to OR to buy things like a Ruger 10/22 which is now a special kind of purchase here. Those who went to OR and showed WA ID were told no. So before driving to another state I would check with a known source first. Be a long damn drive to get there and then find out the answer is no.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Again not an FFL holder, did not stay in a Holiday Inn. I have LONG been told any FFL holder has to follow not only Fed law but also the laws of the state the buyer is a resident of. When WA passed 1639 some said they tried to go to OR to buy things like a Ruger 10/22 which is now a special kind of purchase here. Those who went to OR and showed WA ID were told no. So before driving to another state I would check with a known source first. Be a long damn drive to get there and then find out the answer is no.

I heard something similar on GlockTalk when a member there tried to go from WA to ID to buy a magazine....IIRC, the store clerk knew him from prior purchases and denied him purchase because he was a WA resident.

These FFLs don't know what the law is. If FEDERAL law hasn't changed, then you can still buy a long gun and similar products out of state. It's only handguns that you have to have shipped to an FFL in your state.

But, like you, I'm not an FFL. Or lawyer.

 

[bpyycpyy]

Just to add clarification to the "WA tax" thing, all the transfers I've done recently for FTF FFL transfers in WA, the only money they collect is their fee for the service to process the paperwork, no tax collected, no discussion of what money was paid between seller/buyer. Tax WILL be collected on any firearms that are purchased on-line, including any shipping/insurance costs. I assume this tax would also be collected on any guns that are shipped from a private seller to local FFL dealer but I have no personal experience with that process.

Not sure how 114 impacts things but before, OR residents could bring firearms to WA for transfer and the FFL here were required to follow the buyers state laws, not the sellers.

 

[Alexx1401]

I heard something similar on GlockTalk when a member there tried to go from WA to ID to buy a magazine....IIRC, the store clerk knew him from prior purchases and denied him purchase because he was a WA resident.

These FFLs don't know what the law is. If FEDERAL law hasn't changed, then you can still buy a long gun and similar products out of state. It's only handguns that you have to have shipped to an FFL in your state.

But, like you, I'm not an FFL. Or lawyer.

Again its a LONG drive to find out how it works. Yes you can buy a long gun in a state you do not reside in. You do still have to show the FFL an ID which if its OR, I "have been told" the FFL has to follow the law where the buyer lives. If the gun you wish to buy has to be sold by an FFL then the FFL has to follow all the rules. Now the mags? That "sounds like" someone who has no clue what they are doing. Again though the drive to ID from OR is a good one. I would not make the trip without making sure I was not going to get there and be told no.

 

[MichaelH]

Sigh. Guess that answers my question about driving to WA to buy long guns. Dammit.

Idaho it is then I guess. Gonna be a long drive.

Oregon residents can almost always get a sales tax waiver, but unless your purchase is more than $500 it's not worth the hassle to save $40, especially if it makes the vendor want to scrutinize you more.

Sportsman's warehouse in Vancouver did it for me back when I bought a Ruger P C9 (2018-19?) back before that new law. At the time I knew I couldn't get a pistol over the river, but I could get a rifle. I suspect you still could if you met WA requirements before 114 goes into effect.

 

[Alexx1401]

Oregon residents can almost always get a sales tax waiver, but unless your purchase is more than $500 it's not worth the hassle to save $40, especially if it makes the vendor want to scrutinize you more.

Sportsman's warehouse in Vancouver did it for me back when I bought a Ruger P C9 (2018-19?) back before that new law. At the time I knew I couldn't get a pistol over the river, but I could get a rifle. I suspect you still could if you met WA requirements before 114 goes into effect.

As long as you are not trying to buy a semi auto. If you do you are going to run into the WA law on those here. Would mean at least two trips to make the buy. The rifle you bought is now an "assault rifle" here.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Again its a LONG drive to find out how it works. Yes you can buy a long gun in a state you do not reside in. You do still have to show the FFL an ID which if its OR, I "have been told" the FFL has to follow the law where the buyer lives. If the gun you wish to buy has to be sold by an FFL then the FFL has to follow all the rules. Now the mags? That "sounds like" someone who has no clue what they are doing. Again though the drive to ID from OR is a good one. I would not make the trip without making sure I was not going to get there and be told no.

I'll bet that's an ATF mandate and no FFL wants to risk having their FFL pulled over it. Because it certainly isn't Federal law, to my knowledge. I remember when you could buy a long gun out of state and drive home with it, regardless of what your home state's laws were.

F- that organization.

Oregon residents can almost always get a sales tax waiver, but unless your purchase is more than $500 it's not worth the hassle to save $40, especially if it makes the vendor want to scrutinize you more.

Sportsman's warehouse in Vancouver did it for me back when I bought a Ruger P C9 (2018-19?) back before that new law. At the time I knew I couldn't get a pistol over the river, but I could get a rifle. I suspect you still could if you met WA requirements before 114 goes into effect.

Yeah but I'm picky. I'm looking for a Mossberg 590 or 590A1 specifically, and there's not many of those just hanging out on dealer's shelves. So I would have to spend a day calling around to every FFL in Clark County....no thanks.

Now, if I could buy one online and have it shipped to an FFL in WA, that would be a creamy slice of cake indeed.

 

[Alexx1401]

Yeah but I'm picky. I'm looking for a Mossberg 590 or 590A1 specifically, and there's not many of those just hanging out on dealer's shelves. So I would have to spend a day calling around to every FFL in Clark County....no thanks.

Now, if I could buy one online and have it shipped to an FFL in WA, that would be a creamy slice of cake indeed.

Now that "should" be doable. That gun so far has no special restrictions here. So only rub would be making sure an FFL on this side is OK with doing it before the new damn law takes effect there. Would not wait to do so though. What a damn mess

 

[Librarian]

I'm assuming this is Federal law then. When did it change?

1968. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968 In particular, 18 USC 922 (b)(3) https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?hl=false&edition=prelim&path=&req=granuleid:USC-2013-title18-section922&num=0

§922. Unlawful acts
...
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver-
...
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located,
except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located

if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer,

and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

18 USC 922 (a)(5) says non-FFLs cannot transfer to other-state-residents at all unless using an FFL.

Same law that created Federal Firearms Licensees.

So, not an ATF-thing; they're just the folks that enforce it on FFLs.

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

I understand FFLs are suppose to follow the laws of both the State they operate in and the state that out of state customers reside in. That has not been happening and I have personal experience to know so. Oregon law requires FFLs to run background checks through the Oregon State Police (not directly through NICS), they also require that a stolen gun check be performed by the Oregon State Police. This happens simultaneously when running background check through OSP

Last year while prairie dog hunting in Montana, I visited a Scheels store in Great Falls and tried to buy a 17hmr rifle. They went through OSP and after 12 hours of waiting, I had to let the purchase expire. Given your experience and mine, it is likely that it is up to the store how they perform the check.
The phrase "Your mileage may vary" comes to mind.

 

[MichaelH]

As long as you are not trying to buy a semi auto. If you do you are going to run into the WA law on those here. Would mean at least two trips to make the buy. The rifle you bought is now an "assault rifle" here.

Two trips to WA from PDX only takes about an hour to an hour and a half. Probably worth it if you can get what you want before having to wait till the permits are up and running or if you plan to never get a permit. My bet is if you can get it done by the 7th you're good, and if you don't plan on getting a permit it'd be worth an exploratory trip at the minimum.

My issue is I don't have a CHL and the bgc in OR might not clear before the law goes into effect. Over there that's not an issue, so it makes sense for me to try to get what I want in Clark County before 12/07.

I recognize this is different than whether it's possible after 114 is law.

 

[ma96782]

Yup.......



Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

Oregon resident here. Does anyone know if I can buy a stripped lower receiver in WA and take it home relatively quickly? I recall, before one of WA's recent bad laws I filled out the ATF form and was driving home in 20 minutes. I know there is a waiting period now for rifles, but what about regulated parts like a lower?

I don't have a concealed carry permit so I doubt I'd make the cut-off over here, and I got some projects in mind.

Out of state residents cant buy stripped lowers in another state. They are treated the same as pistols because they can be made into pistols.

 

[leverite]

Out of state residents cant buy stripped lowers in another state. They are treated the same as pistols because they can be made into pistols.

The stripped lower can be transferred as a rifle. There's a spot on the form for noting this.
It cannot be legally built out as a pistol later.

 

[wired]

The stripped lower can be transferred as a rifle. There's a spot on the form for noting this.
It cannot be legally built out as a pistol later.

No, it cant. Stripped receivers are transferred as "other" not rifles or pistols. "Other" stripped receivers MUST be transferred using the same rules as a pistol.

 

[leverite]

Oops

 

[wired]

Beg to differ. Have done this a number of times from OR FFL's.

You can beg to differ all you want but those dealers would be breaking the law. They can get their license pulled for that and your receiver can be confiscated after an audit.

Heres good explanation of the law and the 2009 dealer letter that explains the law

.

https://johnpierceesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/July_2009_FFL_Open_Letter.pdf

Can I purchase a stripped lower from an out-of-state dealer?

I was recently contacted by a gun owner who attempted to purchase a stripped lower from an out-of-state dealer and the dealer refused the sale. The dealer had completely confused the issue by telling him

johnpierceesq.com

A rifle has a buttstock and a rifled barrel. A stripped receiver is NEVER a rifle and a receiver cannot legally be transferred as a rifle. .

1. 18 U.S.C § 922(b)(3) makes it a crime for a dealer to sell any firearm, other than a rifle or shotgun, to a non-resident.
2. Frames and receivers are neither handguns nor long guns.
3. Therefore, frames and receivers do not fall withing the exception for rifles and shotguns and cannot be sold to non-residents.

27 CFR § 478.11 - Meaning of terms.

Rifle. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.




18USC 922 (b)(3)

(b)It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

3. any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;