National Buying Long Gun From Out of State FFL Post Measure 114

Alexx1401 · Dec 18, 2022

wired said:
Where it becomes a problem is if you get a gun stolen and you report it stolen and it gets recovered and the ATF institutes a trace. You really want to be on the receiving end of that phone call? Not only can it be potential jail time but it can be a career killer for someone in a law enforcement capacity.

F*%#K NO I do NOT, which is why it will never happen again. I truly just out of ignorance did not know that when I was going back and forth from here and AZ I was doing something wrong. Even back then had I known I would NOT have done it. In another life when I was very young and dumb, and the rest that goes with that, I did play fast and loose with the NFA laws. Then I grew up and decided I did not want to play that game and bought my first Tax Stamp. Now I am gray haired and I like to think a little smarter than I was then. So when I get info like this it means I follow it. I have long loved this site for the info and once again some great info I sure as hell should have known but really just did not.

Yarome · Dec 18, 2022

I can backtrack and say I overspoke and "perfectly legal" is not entirely accurate. I think where it has been a common practice may be that the fed uscode reads ...

"...the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe (the purchaser) does not reside in... the State in which the transferor resides"

With a private party purchase, I can find no law that requires a purchaser to present ID or for the seller to request it. No law that requires a BGC. There is no law that requires that the seller must provide a sales receipt, record or report the sale of a long gun.

There is, obviosly, the greatest risk on the buyer who is likely aware of the law and why they may be purchasing out of state to begin with. Or... they simply aren't aware.

The seller... it seems like a reasonable defense could be that they did not know and did not have cause to believe the buyer was from out of state. A gray area maybe, but it would help explain why many still consider it fully legit... (if you go about it the right way(?)) Kind of like how some folks feel it's fully legit to help their buddy assemble an 80% frame or receiver.

By the black and white of the law... it's illegal. I believe the intent of the law was to give the gooberment teeth in prosecuting, with criminal intet, firearms trafficking. There may be some case where a private individual was convicted of a felony and/or did federal jail time for buying a long gun out of state solely for personal use... but I've never heard of any. Granted, though, even if it's never happens doesn't make it any less "illegal", by the letter of the law.

Like many things... I guess that's something every person has to decide for themselves, but these fearmongering threats of... if you do it, kiss your life goodbye... you're going to jail for 10years... is pretty much BS unless you were doing it in such volume to draw attention to youself or would be classed in their eyes as a trafficker with criminal intent.

For those in Idaho doing sales to out of staters.... I can pretty much see how they could be using the "gray area" to actually have a defense against any legal charges and why so many still consider it "legal" to sell to anyone they choose.

I dunno. Researching it more changed my perspective a bit and I learned a few things I didn't earier, but... if I needed another rifle... and Idaho was right there... (???)

I'm still not convince though that "if this happens" and "that happens" (astronomical odds against it) and "they talk" and "you talk"... both parties talking themselves into trouble... your life is utterly destroyed. YMMV

Safest play.... sell all your firearms and never buy another!

Xmark1 · Dec 20, 2022

gmerkt said:
Eff. July 1, 2019, Wash. state doesn't do point of sale tax exemptions. What you have to do is apply to the Wash. Dept. of Revenue for a refund of the state portion of the tax, which is 6.5%. Anything over that amount is not the state's portion, and unless you can get it back from lower taxing entities, probably not recoverable. You're allowed to do the refund application with the DOR only once a calendar year, so if you are making multiple purchases "over the border," you save them all up and apply annually the following year.

State sales tax refund for qualified nonresidents | Washington Department of Revenue

dor.wa.gov

Note, people with dual state residency one of which is Wash. are not eligible.

Minimum amounts apply. Seems to me that it's a pain in the posterior unless the amount is significant.

What is dual state residency?
I own homes in wa and Or.

Yarome · Dec 20, 2022

Xmark1 said:
What is dual state residency?
I own homes in wa and Or.

That applies to almost no one. The best example is active military. They keep their home state residency status (but must actively maintain it. IE., filing taxes in that state, keeping DL current, shtuffs like that), but are under orders serving in another state. While on active duty then they are also granted residency status in the state they are serving in. For firearms related stuff, they can choose which state to claim as their resident state that is most beneficial.

Owning property or a second home does not establish residency in that state and a typical person is, by law, only able to maintain residency status in one state. Depending on your resident states laws, you may not even have to own a home there or even spend any time within the state to use it as your resident state. Many don't have requirements quite that loose, but just to illustrate that it varies greatly state to state what their residency requirements are.

That doesn't change the fact that you may only have one though.

Xmark1 · Dec 20, 2022

Yarome said:
That applies to almost no one. The best example is active military. They keep their home state residency status (but must actively maintain it. IE., filing taxes in that state, keeping DL current, shtuffs like that), but are under orders serving in another state. While on active duty then they are also granted residency status in the state they are serving in. For firearms related stuff, they can choose which state to claim as their resident state that is most beneficial.

Owning property or a second home does not establish residency in that state and a typical person is, by law, only able to maintain residency status in one state. Depending on your resident states laws, you may not even have to own a home there or even spend any time within the state to use it as your resident state. Many don't have requirements quite that loose, but just to illustrate that it varies greatly state to state what their residency requirements are.

That doesn't change the fact that you may only have one though.

Thank you for the clarification.

I own/live in Portland and claim Oregon residency.
However, I spend a great deal of time at my Northern Washington property.
If this 114 CF goes unresolved, I am weighing my options of residency.
Problem is, Washington has seen the passing of OR114 and is now working on a similar measure that would also ban assault rifles, period.
For now, anyway, I can conceal carry in Washington with my Hi-Caps that are grandfathered in.
All these new laws are a real pain!