Bullet performance

[DeanMk]

H&R makes a single shot rifle whose design is based on that of their single shot shotgun (the receiver is much beefier with the rifle).
Noticed one of the rounds they chamber for that gun is the .30-30 Winchester.
Since its a single shot firearm, there's no reason why one has to stick with the flat nosed bullet that normally come with that round.
If one were to remove the 150 gr. flat nosed bullet and replace it with a 150 gr. spire point bullet, would one notice any change in the performance of the round?
Granted, it should be more accurate, especially as the distances stretch out, but would the superior aerodynamics of the pointed bullet allow it to fly faster through the air, and thus, churn up a little more energy at any distance?
Would speed/energy be greater at longer distances?
Would it increase the effective range of the round?
The more I think about this, the more the notion intrigues me.
Anyone have any experience with this?


Dean
P.S. Apologies to the mods, in advance, if this was posted in the wrong section.

Read More

 

[Otter]

I would not say the spire point would be more accurate. I think it could more or less accurate, depending on the firearm.

Muzzle velocity should be the same. Down range velocity would be greater, as well as energy, due to the higher ballistic coefficient of the bullet. There would be an increase in effective range, but not a huge amount.

To me the appeal of the 30-30 is for a short range brush gun. The flat nose bullets should go through brush better than a spire point. If I was after more velocity and energy, I would go with a different caliber.

 

[clambo]

Long range performance will be improved with a spire point as velocity wont drop off as quickly, hence trajectory and energy will both inprove assuming the bullet weight remains the same. Accuracy will be sort of a toss up as although long range performance will improve it will not improve so greatly that a 150 yd gun will become a 500 yd gun.
If you want to extend your. 30-30s range to its best you need to increase the velocity. I use 130 gr spitzers in my H&R, that helped a bit. I then reamed the chamber to. 30-30 Ackley Improved. A fairly inexpensive modification but youll need to reload. Normal factory. 30-30 ammo can still be used in a pinch. Although I own other calibers better suited I consider my H&R a 250, maybe 300 yd. deer rifle. Accuracy with mine is right at 1 m.o.a. You may need to experiment with either forearm tension or shimming to achieve this. Then again maybe not. Triggers arent the best but can be stoned. Not an easy job though. Everything H&R Handi Rifle you ever wanted to know can be found on the Graybeard Outdoor forum. Days of reading there.
I hope I didnt break the rules by mentioning another forum by name. Sorry if I did. Hope this makes sense. My wife keeps yammering about her mother and I type this distracted as I pretend to listen. ( or care ) Good luck.

 

[DeanMk]

Apologies for not creating a more pointed question.

Assume the firearm is a regular ol' H&R Handi-Rifle and the bullet weight stays the same (150 gr.).
I realize reloading the round can give higher or lower performance.
I was only wondering how much of a change in performance one would realize by changing the bullet's shape.


Dean

 

[misplacedtexan]

You might see a small increase in velocity at distance due to reduced parasitic drag, but it wouldn't be great. There probably wouldn't be much of an increase in inherent accuracy, just the bullet gets there a little quicker so there is less compensation for wind and distance/elevation.

It might be fun to play with the idea in real life, but I don't see large gains to be had.

 

[KalamaMark]

That is the whole premise of the Leverrevolution Ammo from Hornaday. I would imagine that a hand loader would be able to come close to replicating their claims utilizing their bullets, or other spire tipped bullets.

<broken link removed>


"Up to 250 feet per second faster muzzle velocity than conventional lever gun loads.
Exceptional accuracy and overwhelming downrange terminal performance.
Patented FTX and MonoFlex bullets featuring Flex Tip Technology.
Up to 40% more energy than traditional flat point loads."

 

[clambo]

You can get 250fps more by handloading a .30-30 AI but I wouldnt want to try it with regular .30-30 especially out of a Handirifle topbreak. Maybe out of a Marlin. Ive done all this before but it was in the 80's and I dont have records from that far back. Back to OP's question, there wont be enough gain from a rn to a spire point to make a difference. Muzzle velocity will remain the same, just wont bleed off velocity quite as fast.

 

[Medic!]

Consider your sights may be regulated to the ballistics of a flat point bullet. You may find it a hassle to shoot certain ammo the sights can not adjust to. My 94 Win 30-30 can not be adjusted to point of impact of the new leverlution ammo. I could modify the sights. But for shooting out to iron sight distances I am not messing with my factory pre 64 sights. Just a consideration.

 

[DeanMk]

That is the whole premise of the Leverrevolution Ammo from Hornaday. I would imagine that a hand loader would be able to come close to replicating their claims utilizing their bullets, or other spire tipped bullets.

<broken link removed>


"Up to 250 feet per second faster muzzle velocity than conventional lever gun loads.
Exceptional accuracy and overwhelming downrange terminal performance.
Patented FTX and MonoFlex bullets featuring Flex Tip Technology.
Up to 40% more energy than traditional flat point loads."

Interesting.
Appears to be a Barnes X-Bullet-type projectile with a soft rubber tip.
I'll have to see if I can scare up any accuracy tests/comparo's between that round and the regular old Super-X rounds.
Thanks Mark!


Dean

 

[DeanMk]

Consider your sights may be regulated to the ballistics of a flat point bullet. You may find it a hassle to shoot certain ammo the sights can not adjust to. My 94 Win 30-30 can not be adjusted to point of impact of the new leverlution ammo. I could modify the sights. But for shooting out to iron sight distances I am not messing with my factory pre 64 sights. Just a consideration.

Interesting comment.
I never thought any iron sights would not be precise enough to handle newer loads.


Dean

 

[DeanMk]

You can get 250fps more by handloading a .30-30 AI but I wouldnt want to try it with regular .30-30 especially out of a Handirifle topbreak. Maybe out of a Marlin. Ive done all this before but it was in the 80's and I dont have records from that far back. Back to OP's question, there wont be enough gain from a rn to a spire point to make a difference. Muzzle velocity will remain the same, just wont bleed off velocity quite as fast.

That seems to be the consensus.
Basically makes a 100-150 yard gun into a 150-200 yard gun.
Thanks for your posting your findings.


Dean

 

[best defense]

The only improvement you will get is a higher ballistic coefficient. That means that the bullet will have less drag on it from wind resistance, so it will not slow down as soon as a flat nose bullet. So it will maintain the speed a bit longer. There would be very little difference in terminal performance, but you could ad a few yards in distance due to less drag.

 

[The Heretic]

Spire point projectiles have been tested to do just as well as flat point in "brush busting" by shooting them through a number of wood dowels and measuring deflection.

So the main reasons for flat or round nose projectiles would be for firearms that require them due to their magazine, and/or to get the most bullet mass where that is critical, or where the range is so short that the ballistic advantages of the spire point do not count.

If you are shooting at short ranges with iron sights, then I would not bother, but with a scope, then why not?

Hornady makes their LeverRevolution ammo with plastic tip spire point ammo that removes the danger of the point of the projectile possibly setting off a primer.

 

[U201491]

Why not just get one chambered a .308

 

[U201491]

Why not just get one chambered a .308

ammo is all over, balistically 5 times better that the 30-30 and recoil not much different.
wide variety of loads available. The 30-30 wa a great cartridge for the lever gun, but the 308 will
do far better at game to to elk size with well placed shots at greater ranges.
Just a thought.......................