Building AR As Other Firearm.

arakboss · Feb 12, 2019

When building an AR as an other firearm (26+ inches, pistol brace and vpg), Do you measure the length from end of ext tube to muzzle or end of brace fully extended to muzzle? Has anybody here tried to transfer an AR built as other firearm and got any grief from FFL?

This batf letter would make me believe the measurment would be with brace fully extended but it doesn't specifically mention brace.
Can you add a vertical fore-grip to an AR pistol?

oli700 · Feb 12, 2019

familiar tune , no matter how it shakes out always measure from permanent to permanent. I know nothing is really perm but if it can be readily removed with a hand tool. like when you measure barrel length you measure from breach face to muzzle crown......unless the muzzle device is drilled, pinned and welded then you include the muzzle device in the measurement. The receiver extension is the part not readily removed , staked castle nut and the fact the gun wont work without it kinds gets by the welding requirement. Most all braces slide off or come off tool-less or with an allen key or whatever .
Its grey area on an AR , especially a guy who builds because you can argue it and interpret rules differently

arakboss · Feb 12, 2019

oli700 said:
familiar tune , no matter how it shakes out always measure from permanent to permanent. I know nothing is really perm but if it can be readily removed with a hand tool. like when you measure barrel length you measure from breach face to muzzle crown......unless the muzzle device is drilled, pinned and welded then you include the muzzle device in the measurement. The receiver extension is the part not readily removed , staked castle nut and the fact the gun wont work without it kinds gets by the welding requirement. Most all braces slide off or come off tool-less or with an allen key or whatever .
Its grey area on an AR , especially a guy who builds because you can argue it and interpret rules differently

That sounds like a safer way to measure. The part that is frustrating me is that when they measure the length of pull to determine if a pistol brace is a stock, they do it with brace extended. So let's say with my barrel and ext tube combo I am getting 25.25 inches (brace off) measured as you suggested. With brace on I have 13.25 length of pull at maximum brace extension. I could replace etx tube with one that is an 1 inch longer which would get my overall length over 26 but then my LOP would be over 13.5 inches and then I would have a short barreled rifle. See LOP link here:
ATF Inconsistencies Does Not Pass Muster In Court - This Is Not A Stock -

oli700 · Feb 12, 2019

Dude if government has one thing to offer it's inconsistancy.....I know I work there. But just as government makes grey area work for them , we can make it work for us too . It used to be a brace was classified by the tube..... no adjustment points and the brace is not mechanically held on the tube and must have a way to attach to the users forarm on the brace at all times.... lot has changed since then .

Member 34319 · Feb 12, 2019

Lol, need a lawyer for this thread.

All that I have read online is the overall length can or can not include the muzzle device. It must be or may not be with a folding or adjustable brace. And the overall length must be greater than 26".

Best bet for a transfer, remove said very grip.

Best bet for owning one, buy one from a manufacturer.

arakboss · Feb 12, 2019

Reno911 said:
Lol, need a lawyer for this thread.

All that I have read online is the overall length can or can not include the muzzle device. It must be or may not be with a folding or adjustable brace. And the overall length must be greater than 26".

Best bet for a transfer, remove said very grip.

Best bet for owning one, buy one from a manufacturer.

I was looking for another AR set up (besides manual loading weapon) that wouldn't be subject to IP 16 restrictions (if that passes). VPG would be necessary for weapon to be classified as firearm rather then pistol. I tend to agree with the Atty recommendation but if BATF keeps moving the goal post around then we might never figure this out. Buying a new one is no guarantee as evidenced by this fiasco: ATF Measuring OAL With Brace Folded? -

I think best bet would be to have longer barrel to get the 26+ inch overall length and make sure brace LOP is under 13.5 with brace fully extended.