Budget Varmit hunting/upto 600 yards scope for father

[thewhitebuffalo83]

The title mostly covers it, My Dad asked me to try and find him a scope for his first AR15 build. He is just waiting on his lower to come in to get started. Neither of us know much about the specifics about optics. What he has asked for is a scope that has the crosshairs with the lines below for different ranges. He would like to take his AR out too 600 yards and also use it for varmit hunting down the road. He would like something that isn't too large for his AR, The kid he picked up is a TNT Weaponery MOE rifle kit minus stripped lower. I have the same kit already built but I haven't had time to fire it yet, so really neither of us know if the AR he is building is going be accurate out to 600 yard but that is where he would like to end up down the road. So any advice you guys might have to finding sub $200 scope with type of cross hairs my Dad is looking for would be awesome. Thank you guys for any help, info and advise.

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[evltwn]

hmmm......a guy builds an AR, wants it to shoot 600 yards, but doesn't want to pay for decent glass...shooting with a cheap scope is like taking aim with closed eyes...if ya can't see it, ya can't hit it...try aiming by intuitition...it doesn't cost a dime.

 

[yotehunter]

I agree with evltwn... I am sure a lot of us tried the cheap scopes at one time and we recommend better scope from our experiences. you can start with the Vortex crossfire or bushnell banner. I still have a Bushnell banner 8-16x on one of my rifles but I don't shoot it much because I want better glass.

 

[OR4X4]

Redfield line by leupold is where I suggest to start looking. They dont have the full "mil dot" reticle but they have a bullet drop compensation reticle that works better than enough for most people.

 

[thewhitebuffalo83]

So, I should probably explain a little better. He hopes reach 600 yards down the road. He is looking for the best he can get for Varmit shooting and as far out as he can reach for $200. We both realize a $200 scope isn't going to be easy out to 600 yards he just wants to go as far as he can and upgrade later when he has more money. I have a couple Vortex Crossfires one is a 4-12 and the other is 8-36 magnification I think. They both have basic cross hairs, and I know I am just not good enough to estimate bullet drop. I plan on putting my 4-12 on my AR and the 8-36 on my Remington 700 sps 30-06. With my 700 sps and the 8-36 I will just site it in for what ever distance I decide to take it out too.

 

[tomcat mv]

I have a Vortx Crossfire and have had to send it back twice for repair. They are junk. Vortex Viper is good stuff. For a little more than the price range you are looking at. I would recommend Nikon with the BDC reticle. I have one on my AR and it is a decent scope for the money. The BDC reticle is exactly what you are looking for and Nikon has software on their website that gives info for bullet drop/range info for virtually any bullet weight.

 

[4th_point]

First, do you guys have a good rangefinder that works at 600 yards?

Before you do anything, I would consider the ammo or load that you will use the most and figure out the external ballistics to make sure that the reticles (subtensions) you are shopping for will match the drop of the bullet and your expectations. I like JBM online, but you can use any ballistics software you like. You are much better off learning this now, rather than getting random advice from a forum.

Some reticles will work fine for big game where being off a few inches is not problem, but if you are trying to hit rodents they won't work unless you are ok with the dots lining up with oddball ranges. Many people like the dots to work at exactly 200, 300, 400, etc. yards, either exactly or within a few inches. A really low velocity, low BC bullet can be difficult to get aligned with some reticles at useful ranges. Likewise, some really flat shooting cartridges are just too flat for some reticles. A lot will depend on the targets you intend to shoot, their size, and your expectations. Having a reticle that works at 100 yard increments makes it easier to shoot accurately AND quickly for many people. But if your reticle works at 100 yards, 183 yards, 323 yards, etc. it can make quick mental adjustments difficult for some people.

I don't think you need alpha glass for a plinker, and it sounds like you and your dad are building plinkers. If you want to shoot rats, you'll most likely be shooting in good light and good weather so again you don't need alpha glass. $200 isn't much of a budget though. The Mueller scopes are pretty good in that price range. I've owned the APV which is really nice for the money and the 8.5x25 Eraticator but neither have ballistic reticles. If you are ok with mil-dots, the APT looks like a good scope and they have other models with mil-dots. In general, I think they are a good choice for little money. I've owned better glass than the Muellers, but for the money they are pretty good and have an excellent warranty.

Once you know what targets you plan to shoot, and what "your" bullet is going to do, you don't need anyone to help you find a scope. Instead, you'll figure out a handful of models that fit your needs then its a matter of asking opinions on those exact models. I think that in the end you'll be happier finding what suits you rather than having other people tell you what to use.

Best of luck,

Jason

 

[therifleman]

I can make all of you guys puke!! I put a $50 center point from wal mart on my 300 ultra mag sendero and shot a 5 shot group at 840 yds. I recently put it on a 270 savage accutrigger gun and gave it to my brother who will never shoot it farther than 50 yards since he lives on the coast of washington. I told a friend about my good luck with mine so he tried it on a sendero 11 and couldnt hold a 5 inch group at a hundred.

 

[thewhitebuffalo83]

First, do you guys have a good rangefinder that works at 600 yards?

Before you do anything, I would consider the ammo or load that you will use the most and figure out the external ballistics to make sure that the reticles (subtensions) you are shopping for will match the drop of the bullet and your expectations. I like JBM online, but you can use any ballistics software you like. You are much better off learning this now, rather than getting random advice from a forum.

Some reticles will work fine for big game where being off a few inches is not problem, but if you are trying to hit rodents they won't work unless you are ok with the dots lining up with oddball ranges. Many people like the dots to work at exactly 200, 300, 400, etc. yards, either exactly or within a few inches. A really low velocity, low BC bullet can be difficult to get aligned with some reticles at useful ranges. Likewise, some really flat shooting cartridges are just too flat for some reticles. A lot will depend on the targets you intend to shoot, their size, and your expectations. Having a reticle that works at 100 yard increments makes it easier to shoot accurately AND quickly for many people. But if your reticle works at 100 yards, 183 yards, 323 yards, etc. it can make quick mental adjustments difficult for some people.

I don't think you need alpha glass for a plinker, and it sounds like you and your dad are building plinkers. If you want to shoot rats, you'll most likely be shooting in good light and good weather so again you don't need alpha glass. $200 isn't much of a budget though. The Mueller scopes are pretty good in that price range. I've owned the APV which is really nice for the money and the 8.5x25 Eraticator but neither have ballistic reticles. If you are ok with mil-dots, the APT looks like a good scope and they have other models with mil-dots. In general, I think they are a good choice for little money. I've owned better glass than the Muellers, but for the money they are pretty good and have an excellent warranty.

Once you know what targets you plan to shoot, and what "your" bullet is going to do, you don't need anyone to help you find a scope. Instead, you'll figure out a handful of models that fit your needs then its a matter of asking opinions on those exact models. I think that in the end you'll be happier finding what suits you rather than having other people tell you what to use.

Best of luck,

Jason

Thanks for the info. I wast starting to think I needed to do more research on the subject. I have personally bought 6 or 8 scopes in the last couple years and not been very happy with any of them, other than the one bushnell 3x9x40 I bought for my 10-22. I really like the crossfire 4x12x40 that I have on my AR but I haven't used the much larger crossfire on my 700 yet.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Otter]

The best scope I've ever found at a decent price that wasn't junk was the Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x. It has the ballistic plex reticle you want. You can find them on E-bay if you are willing to put in some work for $250 or so. I bought mine new from Cabelas a few years ago for $300 and it included a small spotting scope I sold for $40.

A 14 power scope is pretty weak for going out to 600 yards on targets like sage rats, but it is a start. The Burris is of high enough quality you will want to keep if if you ever upgrade to a higher power scope on this rifle.

 

[Gunner3456]

The best scope I've ever found at a decent price that wasn't junk was the Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x. It has the ballistic plex reticle you want. You can find them on E-bay if you are willing to put in some work for $250 or so. I bought mine new from Cabelas a few years ago for $300 and it included a small spotting scope I sold for $40.

A 14 power scope is pretty weak for going out to 600 yards on targets like sage rats, but it is a start. The Burris is of high enough quality you will want to keep if if you ever upgrade to a higher power scope on this rifle.

I can't really disagree... I prefer the Nikon Buckmaster for the same money. Nikon did something simple to improve the scope but some may not like it. They made it a little longer than the competition. It's much easier to make glass appear "good" in a longer scope. Some won't like a longer scope on an AR but IMHO the view through the glass is better.

Ford, Chevy, Ford, Chevy, LOL.

 

[deadshot2]

I can make all of you guys puke!! I put a $50 center point from wal mart on my 300 ultra mag sendero and shot a 5 shot group at 840 yds. I recently put it on a 270 savage accutrigger gun and gave it to my brother who will never shoot it farther than 50 yards since he lives on the coast of washington. I told a friend about my good luck with mine so he tried it on a sendero 11 and couldnt hold a 5 inch group at a hundred.

I too have had great luck with a Center Point from Wal Mart. Started out with it on an AR 15 with heavy barrel, put it on a 700 5-r milspec where it was used to shoot "bug holes" at 100 yards, then on a sporterized 1903. It's been in use for over 6 years and is the best $67 scope I've ever seen. Actually works and has held up better than some of my 300+ scopes. Only bad thing about it is that the Illuminated reticle doesn't have enough brightness adjustment so it tends to give a big red or green halo around the view. Turning it off works great and saves the cost of a battery

As for the "friend who couldn't hold a 5" group with it", that isn't always a scope issue. In fact it usually isn't the scope

 

[Otter]

Never have bought a Nikon Buckmaster and concede it too is probably a good scope for the same price range. I own several Nikon Monarch scopes and for the money they rock, but they are at that next higher price point.

Lots of good glass available, but I've found once you dip below the $300 price range you are taking your chances.

 

[coop44]

leupold VX1,2 or 3, buy as good as you can afford. The 4-12 VXI is a very good "bang for your buck", unless you are shooting mildots (elusive creatures) get a good scope and learn how to use it. Too many guys expect too much out of a scope, like being able to read a book at 300 yards. Once you get past 12 power you are talking a bench rest gun, and at 600 yards 1 MOA is close to 6 inches, likely you will not do that good (especially with 5.56).

 

[thewhitebuffalo83]

leupold VX1,2 or 3, buy as good as you can afford. The 4-12 VXI is a very good "bang for your buck", unless you are shooting mildots (elusive creatures) get a good scope and learn how to use it. Too many guys expect too much out of a scope, like being able to read a book at 300 yards. Once you get past 12 power you are talking a bench rest gun, and at 600 yards 1 MOA is close to 6 inches, likely you will not do that good (especially with 5.56).

I talked to my dad and he says that for now he would like to tough 600 yards if he wanted to. He isn't looking for MOA at 600 yards, that would be nice but he realizes that even with the best optics out there he isn't to that skill level yet. He expects this budget scope to get him a couple years of use and then he will probably upgrade to a better AR with a free floated 20 inch or longer bull barrel and a much better piece of glass. Thanks again for all the info, I have started doing more research on the Burris and Nikons. Thank you again for all the helpful info. Great guys as always.

 

[Fat Jesus]

I started out with a Tasco Varmint 6-24 on my AR10 until I could afford a better scope, Honestly it did a great job, and had no problems, and it was $96

 

[madcratebuilder]

Mueller APT

Marketed as a rimfire scope these hold up fine on the AR-15's. The Mueller has been the scope of choice at Rimfirecentral.com for the past six-eight years. Remarkable optic quality and tracking.

The new APT has a 30mm tube and mil-dot.

 

[coop44]

I've heard alot about the Mueller scopes over the years, 30mm tube is nice, suitable for shooting mildots too!! $189 is hard to beat, may have to give them a go.