Mikej

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Drove through Brown's Camp this weekend, it has been a few years since the last cleanup and it's looking a little worse for wear.

View attachment 781459
Be sure and "zoom" in on that picture so you can see the mass of small stuff that people could have EASILY spent 5 minutes picking up to recycle at home. And to the right of that pic, just off the edge, the thousands of shotgun hulls down in the boulders. God Damn I hate some people. :mad:
 

Reno

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Most gun owners DO care. You only hear about the ones that dont
I’d beg to differ.

Most gun enthusiasts care. (Honestly something like 10% of gun owners)

Most gun owners don’t know or don’t care, which is made obvious by the condition of most of the known shooting areas in the woods.

To that point, even folks that pay for a membership at clubs don’t care. Only 10% or less that volunteer keep even those places clean and operational.
 
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It’s just not that much effort to clean up after yourself and an additional bag for good measure. That’s how it’s kept cleaned up and keep a good reputation for shooters. Haul out more than you haul in...
I make sure I have a garbage bag in the trunk with me every time I go to an open range. Feels good to leave it cleaner than when you arrived :)
 
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I’d beg to differ.

Most gun enthusiasts care. (Honestly something like 10% of gun owners)
Reno has a point that's true, its what Ive observed on public lands. I suspect the majority of shooters are new or irregular, I just haven't figured out if the majority shooters are just ignorant to clean shooting techniques or outright have no morals and don't even care about how their actions affect others.

Im not certain how long he 10% can keep up with the trend of new gun ownership who only have public lands as an option.
 

Cogs

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Reno has a point that's true, its what Ive observed on public lands. I suspect the majority of shooters are new or irregular, I just haven't figured out if the majority shooters are just ignorant to clean shooting techniques or outright have no morals and don't even care about how their actions affect others.

Im not certain how long he 10% can keep up with the trend of new gun ownership who only have public lands as an option.
Yeah, darn it... The newbee's are the majority out there, (from what I see). I stop and visit with them every time I go out and find many are so 'UNAWARE' of the rules, or 'Common Sense', that they don't have a clue as to what's legal or not. Many, that I talk to, seem to want to do it right and are really surprised to hear there are actually rules they are supposed to follow. They just thought public land is free so it's a free-for-all (anything goes) kind of thing. Others, I've talked to, put on a good front that says "hey yeah, I dig it, man. Hell yeah, save our places to shoot and I always clean up and more!" and then, once you leave, they don't give a rip and don't bother to clean a thing.

We have that 'Element' of users who have an attitude and don't want, nor care, for any rules we might tell them. I think this 'Element' is becoming the majority of users out in the woods. I say they are the majority because the minority, (responsible shooters), are not out in the woods that often, as @Reno mentioned. Responsible shooters are a minority now, not like the old days.

So, our challenge is greater now than ever before. I think if I were to have started this "Trash No Land" effort back in the 50's or 60's, there would not have been anyone to talk to! and there would not be a need for Trash No Land. Back then, they were already informed and taught by their parents. Not so anymore. These new shooters seem to have no parental guidance regarding firearms or public land shooting, and have no moral or ethical foundation of respect for our great outdoors. They have no convictions about leaving their trash behind, nor shooting trees, nor blasting explosives or anything else. The attitude is "hey, it was already here. We didn't bring it, so it's not our responsibility."

I do have hope, however, that we can cause an effect on many of the shooters out there right now. Through education and information, we can, and have, reached many shooters with our message. Just look at the difference on NWFA alone, since 2014, of how many more gun owners are stepping up to recognizing and promoting responsible shooting on public lands. I find it amazing that so many of you are out there supporting the effort to improve the shooting sports in our great outdoors. Good on you folks!

So I hope we grow our little 10% representation in the woods, to a 90% representation. We'd certainly have the upper hand on whether we save and preserve shooting for future generations or loose it because of the new ones who don't realize what they're doing.

Bill
 
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So, our challenge is greater now than ever before.
I dont mean to have a pessimistic outlook, its just that I'm out at Salmonberry a few times a year regularly and see the garbage they leave myself, including my secrete spots. ....but I cant begin to tell you how much your TNL work has helped. The Wolf Creek lanes have seriously helped the situation in this area of the Tillamook forest. I dont get my schedule to align with the TNL cleanup days, but take an extra bag home when I do shoot there. I'm just at a loss at what more can be done as more population grows and moves here to take advantage of the outdoor recreation Oregon has enjoyed exclusively, but your work has been invaluable and hasnt gone unnoticed.
 

Cogs

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Why don't we organize a cleanup then? It's not hard to do. Many of us have trucks and tools and the willingness!
Go for it, Shooter! Just pick a date and give a call out for folks to help. You'll be surprised as the quality of help you'll get from NWFA members! It only takes 3-5 people to make a big difference in short order! If you get real picky, it may take a long time, so, best just go for the big/ugly stuff and call it good for now.

Plan on paying the disposal cost yourself. You'll want to ask the others to chip in to cover the cost. Best to check disposal sites to see if they are a Flat Fee or a By the Pound fee. The Pound fee will be cheaper. I dumped a load of 22 bags at the transfer station in Banks and they had a minimum fee of $67. If I would have brought it back to Washougal, WA, or even the Sandy OR transfer station, it would have been by the pound and only would have cost about $15 bucks. So, it makes a difference where you go. Hopefully, there's a better option near you.

You don't need forest agency approval. It's our land and we need to do what's best. We'd need their approval if we were asking them to provide a dumpster and disposal. Otherwise, we can just organize a grassroots effort and do it on our own.

As for shooters showing up to shoot while you're cleaning up, they will see you are down there cleaning up and you can tell them "we're doing this now and you can help or wait till we're done". They usually help. (Note: Lock your vehicles and keep an eye on them. Some people like to bust a window and take what they can before you can make it back to the truck. Just say-in...)

Late fall and winter is a time when I don't schedule group cleanups. I'm focused on planing for next Spring/Summer activities. Sometimes I will do a shout-out for a small 'impromptu' cleanup for 3-5 people, or so, in fall or winter, however, usually I'm real busy with the Trash No Land business and prep for next year and I don't have the time to organize a good cleanup event in the fall or winter.

But, you are welcome to pick a date and time to meet. If I'm available, I'll join your effort. Would be good to do this. I hope it happens for you and all of us! Take pics! And prepare to describe your event with all the details! (I'll share it on Trash No Land social media outlets. It'll make us gun owners look good!)

Bill
 
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Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. The last cleanup I organized approximately 25 people showed up and we made a huge improvement. We each left with a few large trash bags. I'm going to go out to Brown's Camp to shoot and scout it out to get an idea of how much garbage there is. I'll keep everyone posted
 

citizen a

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Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. The last cleanup I organized approximately 25 people showed up and we made a huge improvement. We each left with a few large trash bags. I'm going to go out to Brown's Camp to shoot and scout it out to get an idea of how much garbage there is. I'll keep everyone posted
10-15 people approximately 2 hours is my educated guess. Would be great if you captain a clean up event, count me in. Some of us other than @Cogs need to take the lead on these from time to time.
 

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