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Brilliant Idea!!.......Is it legal?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by 2Wheels4Ever, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. 2Wheels4Ever

    2Wheels4Ever Portland Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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  2. daoism

    daoism PDX Member

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    Still looks like it'd need a stamp....
     
  3. mkwerx

    mkwerx Forest Grove, OR Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to ask the ATF on that one. Doesn't sound legal since you're talking about using a stock adapter? Only way to know for sure is to contact the ATF... good luck
     
  4. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Looks has NOTHING to do with needing a stamp or not or even what NFA item it is.

    Well following the law as it stands now I believe (I am not a lawyer, not am I in a Holiday Inn). Since the brace is NOT a stock, nor is it designed or intended to be fired from the shoulder.
     
  5. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

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    For the top link you will require a tax stamp . . . even says so on their site "In the Unites States all NFA rules apply
    You must register your handgun with the ATF if you plan on adding a stock to it.
    Reference: ATF Form 1 "

    The second link the mako would be legal as it does not have a stock.
     
    1337BaldEagle likes this.
  6. rdb241

    rdb241 Puyallup Washington Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    I just got a SB-47 arm brace for AK pistols. It even comes with an ATF letter of approval.


     
  7. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    That was NOT his question though. He was asking if the Sig Brace used in place of the stock in those pics, would be legal for use on a pistol since it is NOT designed to be fired from the shoulder.
     
  8. Oregon Quartermaster

    Oregon Quartermaster SE Portland Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    The wording of the ATF letter states that the arm brace is not considered a stock only if it's used as the manufacture specifies. So, your arm has to be strapped into the brace. Since all of the glock adapters have something physically blocking the way, unlike an AR or an AK, you'd be hard pressed to convince the ATF that you're using it as the manufacture intended when seeking ATF approval. Furthermore, if you shoulder the arm brace on one of the "pistols" sold with the brace, you are technically in violation of the ATF ruling. I love SBRs, but I love not going to jail, paying $10,000 fines, losing my gun rights, paying daunting legal fees better.

    To me, it's not worth the trouble, but only I am me.
     
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  9. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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  10. Oregon Quartermaster

    Oregon Quartermaster SE Portland Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Nice shiny new letter, I stand corrected.
     
    Don H likes this.
  11. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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    Most of us assume the grey rules in ways to keep us out of trouble so you are not wrong but safe because of the grey rules atf has.
    Then a letter like this comes to surface to help us understand how or what atf thinks ;)
    Even with this letter I would not shoot with the brace against the shoulder in front of the law
    as you could end up with legal bs until you prove in court its not eeeelegal
     
  12. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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    Good enough for me to keep that Sig brace even though SBR's will soon be good to go as
    I cant have a loaded SBR/rifle or shotgun in the motor home or trailer but I can have a loaded pistol with a sig brace.
     
    Nwcid likes this.
  13. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    its perfectly legal to use this as a stock, you just cant change any of its configuration to better suit you as a stock. not really much different from people bracing the AR-15 buffer tube against your shoulder.
     
  14. PNWHunter

    PNWHunter Covington, WA Member

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  15. rdb241

    rdb241 Puyallup Washington Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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  16. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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    Another copy of this letter that getting around on every forum
     
  17. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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  18. rdb241

    rdb241 Puyallup Washington Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    No it is not the same letter. The letter in post #9 comes with the stabilizer when you buy it. The other letter refers to the use of the arm stabilizer as a shoulder stock. Read the letter in my post again!
     
  19. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I still don't get it. The letter in #9 defiantly does NOT come with the stock, it is not addressed to Sig. It is addressed to the same "Dear Sgt. Bradley....... Sure looks like the exact same content to me.

    From you link,

    Dear Sgt. Bradley:

    This is in response to your communication dated January 24, 2014, to the Bureau of Alcohol, tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Your e-mail was forwarded to the ATF Firearms technology Branch (FTB), Martinsburg, West Virginia, for reply. In your note, you ask about firing an AR-15 type pistol from the shoulder; specifically, if doing so would cause the pistol to be reclassified as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR).

    For the following reasons, we have determined that firing a pistol from the shoulder would not cause the pistol to be reclassified as an SBR:

    FTB classifies weapons based on their physical design characteristics. While the usage/functionality of the weapon does influence the intended design, it is not the sole criteria for determining the classification of a weapon. Generally speaking, we do not classify weapons based on how an individual uses a weapon.

    FTB has previously determined (see FTB #99146) that the firing of a weapon from a particular position, such as placing the receiver extention of an AR-15 type pistol on the user’s shoulder, does not change the classification of a weapon. Further, certain firearm accessories such as the SIG stability brace have not been classified by the FTB as shoulder stocks and, therefore, using the brace improperly does not constitute a design change. Using an accessory improperly would not change the classification of a weapon under Federal law. However, the FTB cannot recommend using a weapon (or weapon accessory) in a manner not intended by the manufacturer.

    We thank you for your inquiry and trust the foregoing has been responsive.


    Here is the the Sig letter which is dated Nov 26 2012, http://sigsauer.com/upFiles/ATF-Compliant-Letter.pdf
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  20. Redtazdog

    Redtazdog Washington in the sticks Active Member

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    Yep that is the exact same letter, the letter I got with my sick stock is completely different.
     
    usagi likes this.