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Breaking- US Army places order for 24,000 M4 Carbines with Remington

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by EMP9596, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    By: Rob Curtis
    20-04-2012
    Contracts

    Breaking- US Army places order for 24,000 M4 Carbines with Remington


    It was bound to happen. The US Army has been buying M4 carbines exclusively from Colt since 2002 (though the first Colt M4 contract was awarded in 1996). But, as of 18:20 today, Remington Arms has been added to that dance card. The question is whether Colt retained a portion of the contract. It appears they haven’t, but it’s hard to tell from the published documents.

    According to the Department of the Army’s Chief of Legislative Liaison, the Army today executed a delivery order on an existing contract to buy 24,000 M4/M4A1s worth $16,163,252.07. The order comes as line 001 on an IDIQ contract for up to 120,000 carbines worth $83,924,089.00. Though, the U.S. Army Contracting Command lists the “Max Potential Contract Value $180,000,000.00.” The rifles will be made at Remington’s factory in Ilion, NY, from the Colt technical data package and, by my math, will cost about $673 a copy. That’s a hell of a group buy price.

    This news is just hours old, so Remington, and likely Colt, are still spinning up the PR machines. But, I spoke with two Remington Arms employees who confirmed the contract award but hadn’t been cleared to make a statement on behalf of the company. I haven’t heard from Colt, yet. But I expect them to be fairly quiet until the protest period has ended.

    ** Any of you that were about to buy milspec parts for your guns, now’s a good time. I’m sure Remington is about to go on an OEM parts buying binge.

    Breaking- US Army places order for 24,000 M4 Carbines with Remington | Military Times GearScout
     
  2. Warthog

    Warthog Turner, OR Active Member

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    Perhaps that's why they stopped selling LE marked rifles to the public, because they were no longer making them at all.
     
  3. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

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    I'd still take a colt over a Rem any day I'd think just about everyone would agree with me so it makes sense the gumbernment would make the switch because it makes no sense
     
    MikeE and (deleted member) like this.
  4. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    At that price I'd be in on that group buy if I was allowed in.
     
  5. iusmc2002

    iusmc2002 Colville, WA Active Member

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    If you spend $17m, they'll probably let you in on a group buy :laugh:
     
  6. Dan-Dee Sales Inc

    Dan-Dee Sales Inc Sweet Home, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    it will be a Bushmaster rifle?
     
  7. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    It will be a rifle that meets military spec. This is not a good or bad thing, it is just exactly what it is.

    There are many AR's out there that are better then Colt. Even though they are better they can not be called Mil spec because they dont meet the defined specs.
     
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  8. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    It's no different than winning a bid for axel bearings. The vendor has to meet specs, quanitys and delivery dates. It may be a sign that Rem paid more into Obama's reelection fund to get the contract away from Colt, otherwise no big whoops.
    The other end of the story is WHY do we need MORE M-4s?
    The US has what 5 million M-16/4s?
    should we not be spending our Obama Dollars on weapons that defeat Body Armor?
    Maybe I'm behind the times, Maybe ARTY will do what a 556 can't, maybe I'm a fossil.
    Every time in history that the "Experts", safe behind high walls, said to ignore history...history kicked *** on the fighters, the experts moved thier investments accordingly.
    40 years back I would have called anyone that said this a lier and a traitor, now I would say nothing.
     
  9. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Its just competition in action. I remember seeing some M16 rifles in the armory that were made by Fabrique Nationale.
     
  10. PDXoriginal

    PDXoriginal PNW Well-Known Member

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    I would almost say Colt fanboys are worse than Glock fanboys, but that is a hard one to beat.
     
    PDXSparky, andreys21, Redcap and 3 others like this.
  11. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    You are correct, sir. FN took the bid for the M16A3, M240B and M249 while Colt retained the bid for the M4.

    Most of you are also correct on the parts and quality of the rifle. Mil Spec means Mil Spec. Period. They have to meet all requirements (size, shape, color, hardness, ect.) as their Colt counterparts. Colt charged the US Military $1,300 per rifle at last year's bid. The US military has since been looking for other competitors.

    Army announces carbine competition details - Military News | News From Afghanistan, Iraq And Around The World - Military Times
    Colt, S&W among those out of carbine bidding - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
     
  12. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    I can recall seeing parts for various infantry weapons made by the most unlikely companys: M3A1's built by National Can and Headlight?
    Parts for 1911's built by Acme, small parts (inc.) of course back then, you did not have to look outside the USA to find industrail prowess, the entire country was one mass of large and small machine operations. My best job was in a "Machine, job shop" We built EVERYTHING. Drop the spec sheet on the table; 10 days later, it was comming off the (small) assembly line.
    Most of America was like that: Small companys, small farms, small dairys, small truckers, small oil companys, (I even saw wild catters drilling for oil, all non-union in the middle of no-where).
    I thought those PPL were like astronaughts, pioneers, Tomas Edison. They held thier lives in thier own hands and lived with the terror of failure and the jubilation of sucess. It was not the US Govt that Broke the sound barrier, It was not the US govt that landed on the moon. It was America that did those things. America FLew, America invented the light bulb, America invented the assembly line, America Illuminated the world, defeated Malaria, Defeated Polio, Extended life spans, linked contenients by air, coastlines by rail, Died by the 100,000's to end slavery and liberate the planet!
    But under Obobo all that has been forgotten
     
  13. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    hydramatic.jpg
     
  14. Steve06

    Steve06 Oregon Active Member

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    This has recent precedent. When the Navy put together the SOPMOD stock for years the only producer was LMT. Good stock for the M4, one of the best. They always submitted bids of around $275-300 per stock. On the last bid they did it again only there was a new vendor who sold one to the Government TDP. That company was named B5 and their bid was $67.00. You can purchase that stock for $75-100 bucks and B5 won the bid and is now sole supplier.

    Colt, similarly, has overbid the cost of the M4 at around $900 or so and in the most recent bid they lost the prime contractor status when the bid was awarded at under $700.
     
  15. DEADTIME

    DEADTIME Coeur D alene Active Member

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    We seriously need to move away from the 223 it's an ok round but it just doesn't cut the mustard. The reality of what happens in combat never seems to get to the pencil pushing math geeks in accounting. This is like the HK that is "replacing" the saw do you want a 200 round lmg laying down suppressive fire or a guy with an m4 clone and a 30 round clip doing that.......thank god I was a tanker.
     
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  16. John Gault

    John Gault clackamas county Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    If you think about it from a perspective I like, The governent is spending taxpayer money (17 million) on these rifles "supposedly to benefit the taxpayers in the end" so we should all (if you paid taxes last year) be able to get in on the "group buy" don't you think :bluelaugh:
     
  17. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Any spending is bad spending when you are 15+ trillion in debt and curve upward looks like the launch of a Saturn V.

    We are bankrupt and the feds should be spending -0- on ANYTHING new; especially new useless wars and expansion of bases all over the globe. They act like 'we' are rich and healthy while we have the worst balance sheet on the planet. Like a street bum with a credit card going into NW Armory and buying every gun in the place on plastic.

    All of this spending is from printing trillions in monopoly money out of thin air. Inflation is the cruelest tax there is, and all this print and spend BS is going to mean financial slavery down the road.
    Whether it is 17 million or $5 - all new spending for ANYTHING must stop now.

    What am I saying? Must be the Coors. It is already too late, we are toast regardless at this point.
     
    nwwoodsman and (deleted member) like this.
  18. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    But the 5.56 NATO is NOT that same as a .223. Check the specs, the 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures and the .223 can be much longer OA as the leade can be longer.

    BTW, it's a magazine not a "clip"
     
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  19. DEADTIME

    DEADTIME Coeur D alene Active Member

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    1. No bubblegum the 5.56 fires a slightly hotter piece of crap round
    2. I call it a clip because as a tanker I never wanted to confuse a conversation about the magazine in the tank with the pop guns the crunches carried so spare me your bubblegum remf.
     
  20. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    So spending $670 per rifle is worse than $1,300 per rifle? These are the same rifles...they will still be the M4 carbine- they're not going to replace all Colt M4s with Remington M4s, they will just stop buying Colt M4s...they lost the bid is all. The IAR replacing the M249 is, arguably, a huge and costly mistake...one that, ironically, the USMC did.

    Defense.gov: Contracts for Friday, December 19, 2008

    Defense.gov: Contracts for Tuesday, April 17, 2007

    If you opened an old National Guard armory I guarantee you will see a mix of Colt and FN M16s. Why? Because Colt lost the bid to the M16.

    Defense.gov: Contracts for Wednesday, December 26, 2007

    The fact of the matter is, Colt got a fat, sweatheart deal on their last bid for the M4. Everyone was competing for the service rifle, from the Magpul Masad (now Bushmaster ACR), the FN SCAR to the H&K XM8- just to name a few. Arguably, all of these rifles would have been an improvement over the standard M4. Nevertheless, Colt got the bid for another year or so and now lost it due to their own greed.

    Report: 'Fat' Government Gun Contractor Is Criticized for Exclusive War Deal | Fox News

    There is a lot of speculation that the US Military had a "no-bid" contract with Colt. The US military released the specs on the Colt M4A1 to several other manufacturers to see if anyone else could produce the M4. Colt sued, but both parties conceded to just continue doing business with each other...again, this is just speculation. Nevertheless, the Department of Defense is notorious for purchasing all equipment from the lowest bidder. As long as it meets military specs, they don't care who's logo is on the side. With all the different manufacturers that produce the M4 (mostly in civilian AR-15 platforms) why else on earth would DoD pay $1,300 a rifle?

    Well, the cards on all the table now...if Colt sues the DoD because they lost the bid then we'll know for sure.