Brazil: Guns don't feed violence, just as flowers don't bring peace

[Boboclown]

The flintlock is a far superior killing machine, than the modern carbine.
Inside of 200 yards,hey are all about the same.

I hunt with my flintlock, here in washingrad 5.56 isnt allowed as a hunting round.
It was never designed to kill, just maim.

Firearms are defensive by nature. Its the sub human mongrel that uses them offensively on soft targets.

I'll agree that firearms are defensive. However, 5.56 being designed to wound is an urban legend. It was simply so a soldier can carry more ammo and have more firepower. Here in NC it is allowed as a hunting round, and not just on varmints.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

One heck of an urban legend. Its part of the advanced armorers course in the 80s.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

A flower brought peace here.

Ah, the opening credits to Watchmen.
Love it.

 

[Boboclown]

One heck of an urban legend. Its part of the advanced armorers course in the 80s.

Even urban legends can make it into circles when they're accepted uncritically. And that 80s is certainly long enough for an urban legend to grow from something made in the 60s.

It was to increase the amount of ammo a soldier can carry, thus creating more firepower. Was there a trade off? Certainly, it wouldn't have the "knockdown" power of the .308, but it is still certainly lethal and lighter so more can be carried.

 

[Stomper]

Hate to tell ya, but it was also to wound enemy soldiers, because if you kill one you reduce their forces by one, but if you severely wound one it takes 3-4+ to tend to and carry them to the rear... reducing their forces by 4-5+.


That was part of the doctrine in the 80's-90's.

 

[Boboclown]

Hate to tell ya, but it was also to wound enemy soldiers, because if you kill one you reduce their forces by one, but if you severely wound one it takes 3-4+ to tend to and carry them to the rear... reducing their forces by 4-5+.


That was part of the doctrine in the 80's-90's.

80s and 90s was still after the introduction of 5.56... The point was more ammo, cause if the guy misses he at least has more (and I suppose this has something to do with people complaining about pray and spray?). Could it have became a doctrine afterwards? Certainly, but one that doesn't work too well against crazies, and the world is full of them (including Russians, but they're on their own level of crazy). Nonetheless, it certainly is lethal and with proper shot placement it wouldn't have mattered. If it was designed in the 80s, and was in the doctrines in the 80s, there'd be more credence to that being the original intent.

That's not to discount your service, as it does matter and I respect that you have served (and have served down range). But doctrines can change after the fact. After all, didn't the M16 get introduced and not needing to be cleaned?

 

[Stomper]

I wasn't disputing the lethality of the round and increasing ammo count for individual load-out. I've taken a couple deer with one shot using my AR15, and I have zero, zip, nada qualms using the caliber whatsoever, I'd even go after big bears with an AR15 (with a couple 30rnd mags). I was simply stating it was also doctrine to wound the enemy and tie up their resourses dealing with their wounded.

 

[Boboclown]

I wasn't disputing the lethality of the round and increasing ammo count for individual load-out. I've taken a couple deer with one shot using my AR15, and I have zero, zip, nada qualms using the caliber whatsoever, I'd even go after big bears with an AR15 (with a couple 30rnd mags). I was simply stating it was also doctrine to wound the enemy and tie up their resourses dealing with their wounded.

I gotcha. So... Technically that doesn't contradict what I said either.

 

[Stomper]

I gotcha. So... Technically that doesn't contradict what I said either.

Was never the intention, but it also isn't a complete "urban myth"...

 

[Boboclown]

Was never the intention, but it also isn't a complete "urban myth"...

If it was never the intention then it being the intention is an urban myth.

 

[OldTengu]

Was never the intention, but it also isn't a complete "urban myth"...

I also understand that both reasons were responsible for the shift to 9mm from .45, but I have been known to be incorrect from at least time to time.

 

[Boboclown]

I also understand that both reasons were responsible for the shift to 9mm from .45, but I have been known to be incorrect from at least time to time.

We adopted the 9mm because most of NATO was already using it. We made them use 7.62 NATO and 5.56 so we adopted 9mm in turn. The point of NATO rounds was that we'd also have access to ammo overseas from our allies.

 

[Boboclown]

Tidbit for context on that... The U.S refused to go with an intermediate cartridge and stuck to 7.62 NATO. This changed the FAL from .280 British to 7.62 NATO. This also caused other nations to adopt 7.62 NATO, nations that wanted an intermediate cartridge.

Then... The U.S switched to an intermediate cartridge (which wasn't as powerful as the .280 British). Which didn't make NATO happy. Since 9mm was used by just about everyone but the U.S, the U.S just took 9mm.

 

[ATCclears]

Bolsonaro woos Brazil voters with simple recipe for ending violence

snippet:

RIO DE JANEIRO (AFP) -

Jair Bolsonaro topped the poll in the first round of Brazil's presidential elections, having seduced tens of millions of voters with simple -- though radical -- solutions to eradicating violence in one of the world's deadliest countries.

For many, Bolsonaro has the answer to the question that has preoccupied them for years -- how to lower the crime rate in a country with more than seven murders an hour?

"Give guns to good people," the former paratrooper insisted during campaign meetings.

"If one of us, a civilian or a soldier, is attacked... and if he fires 20 times at the assailant, he should be decorated and not have to go to court," the far-right candidate told a campaign meeting in the northern Rio neighborhood of Madureira in August.

It was a simple speech that hit the mark for Jamaya Beatriz, a manicurist from this violent suburb of Rio De Janeiro.

"I live in a dangerous neighborhood," the young woman said. "If someone breaks into my home, I want to be able to defend my children."