Discussion in 'Part & Accessory Classifieds' started by eldbillbo, Apr 29, 2009.
All Colt's M4 uppers have a raised "C". This is to prevent someone from just stamping it with a "C" stamp. I have seen carriers and bolts that have been engraved or stamped "C" and "MPC" in attempts to fraud. Also it would be nice to see a pic of the wrap Because some of us know what authentic wrap and labels look like.
Yep, what he said........
Thanks for the pics!
hmm My 6920 has the raised key hole and the stamped C on the upper and stamped C on the carrier? Check this out http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=441240
Kvn555 carriers, bolts along with other internal parts are usually marked by a stamping if marked at all. Colt's produced many internal parts with and without stampings and engravings. Because of the relative ease of stamping a letter makes spotting forgeries even more difficult. Whereas an upper receiver has raised markings. The keyhole mark denotes “Cerro Forge” where the stamped “C” can mean anything. Another practice is for a part to be switched out before the purchaser receives it, for example replace upper or build up from parts using mixed authentic and counterfeit. Again the question has to be asked “where did your item come from?”, how was it packaged, and what supporting documentation accompanied it?. Contact Colt's ask them if your “C” stamped upper is authentic. Truly this market is “buyer beware”.
It came new in a box from a local dealer. With matching serial numbers on the box and serial number/barcode sticker on the plastic bag it was in. My brother got one the same day at another local dealer packaged and marked in the same way.
zeitgeist I got this direct from a colt distributor not Knob creek if you followed the link that kvn555 posted you would see this is just the way colt is doing it now . i have been around colts for a long time and you are right generally colt always had a raised C on receivers but as evidence shows as per the link not any more however I see your fustration since colt starting to do this then it could open the door way for fakes but someone would have to stamp a perfect C on it and Stamp M4 above the clover leaf and package it in colt packaging
if you know your colts well you will also note that early colt receivers only had tiny colt proff mark stamped on them with no other forge codes of any kind at all
also some of the early large front pivot flat top upper receivers also did not have any forge code at all just the proff mark you cant say they were fakes as at that time they were the only company making them (later armalite made some unmarked ones then DD but they marked them)
zeitgeist if you have any more concerns please take it up with colt and stop dumping on my post
Colt Defense LLC
P.O. Box 118
Hartford, CT, 06141
Fax: (860) 244-1442
I did follow the link that kvn555 provided. The consensus there seemed to be general concern over the inability to determine genuine Colt's from non Colt's. It also seems from the comments in that thread that Colt's did not manufacture the uppers with that particular mark. It seems to be more here say and conjecture. I don't really see how that link supported your argument. You are correct about the early Colt's proof marks and you give a very good example of why Manufacturers began using raised markings as to means to authenticate there origins. Thank you also for confirming that you didn't get this from Colt's but through a third party, a common thread among all who have purchased one of these uppers. As far as me contacting Colt's, I think not, in fact I don't think I'll ad any aspect of this intercourse as one of my action items the next time a Colt's rep contacts me regarding one of our FMS-IDS contracts. Thanks anyway for the contact info I'm sure a prospective purchaser might find it useful. Although I doubt anyone at Colt's would be willing to take the time to review this thread.
How can you call this dumping. A response is demanded when one casts disparaging comments upon ones intellect, experience, and honor.
I have allowed this thread to continue on its merry way, given this is good info. to get out to the masses.
I too am a Colt certified armorer in both 1911 and AR/M4/M16, and have seen many styles of uppers and their markings.
I have not seen a Colt product bagged that way, but then I have not seen everything either. But that diesn't mean it's not an authentic part, as I see third party parts suppliers use their own numbers etc. relative to their own book keeping practices.
When obtaining genuine Colt 1911 parts, I am referred to other Colt parts suppliers who package them their own way...Brownells being an example.
So lets be civil to one another, and state known facts not the usual, I heard this from my brothers-friends-fathers-uncles-wifes-cousin..... UGH!
Perhaps someone should call colt directly, and get an answer? Their CS department would know how to recognize fakes better than any store/armorer/forum member I would hope.
The problem comes from the seller not wanting to take the item from the package, so we cant get a look at the markings.
We will need that first. But that's his call, and I respect the decision he makes concerning this.
I have discribed it to the T a pressed in C with key hole forge code with M4 stamped about the gas port and M4 feedramps . I would be more than happy to take a photo of it out of wrap prior to sale if the buyer requested it as contingent upon sale knowing what i have said and only needing to confirm.
If it take it out of wrap then it is no longer new in wrap is it? you can look at yourselves to see what a stickler details are to colt buyers and collectors the 2 hear that have raised the most fuss about this are hardly even interrested in buying it what if i take it out of the wrap to take a photo so a certain can still sqabble about it (not even a call from the president of Colt could convince him) can say oh thanks thats a C while another real buyer would say man i really wish that the wrap was not torn open now how do i know its not used.
Being a local board i would figure a person could physically look at it ftf prior to purchasing it they can see the markings under the plastic without taking it out of wrap.
If i wanted to discuss this i would have posted under discussion now my post has been stomped into the ground i thought ad stomping was against the rules here.
some buyers are a little more educated than others and can see and know where the wrap is from by the photos thus no need to remove as if i do remove it then would that not make it in some eyes to me more likely a forgery that is no longer in its original wrap its all a matter of point of view is'nt it . I will not take it out for the sake of discussion I will allow the new owner to inspect prior to purchase .
END OF DISCUSSION
This thread started out with questions about your item, which is allowed. Obviously there were some posts that were not on the civil side which were deleted by me, or the poster themselves.
Am sorry that it turned into a discussion about the packaging and the authenticity of the upper.
I don't consider it thread stomping when people are asking claifying questions about the item, and in this case a bit of education was gained.
Be well all......
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