Book - The Second Sleep

[ATCclears]

The Second Sleep: A novel: Robert Harris: 9780525656692: Amazon.com: Books


Article:

Robert Harris: First the internet dies. Then civilisation crumbles

For all its technological genius, our modern world is fragile. Robert Harris, whose new book imagines life after an apocalypse, considers how we might be thrown back to the middle ages.

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[JustSomeGuy]

Hence the reason that I began paring technology out of our life and the day-to-day operation of the ranch about 15 or so years ago. The most technologically sophisticated thing I do these days is tapping out messages and the occasional phone call on the 5 year old cell phone I'm typing this message on.

 

[The Heretic]

Reading the reviews on Amazon, which, I get the feeling that the premise is that civilization completely forgets most if not all of previous knowledge and technology.

Given history, I find this hard to swallow - although it is not an uncommon premise of PAW fiction, both written and video (stargate atlantis has the wraith, which regularly wipe out any human civilization that reach a certain level of technology, only to have them go back to medieval levels and start over again).

Yes, in history, some knowledge has been wiped out to a degree, but not worldwide - it has been a regional/cultural phenomena. Worldwide tech and knowledge would persist to some degree. we might go backwards a hundred years in ubiquitous tech, but the knowledge would still be there, and so would some of the tech - including tech based on micro-electronics, which is so ubiquitous and cheap now, that it would take a concerted worldwide effort to wipe it out - it wouldn't happen naturally much less by accident - and even then, there would be people who would hide their stash of tech - I know I would.

There is just too much of an advantage in the tech over anything else to completely wipe it out. That is why we are where we are; knowledge and science and the tech that ensues from it is just too valuable to allow it to be lost permanently and totally. The only way that could happen would be to wipe out so much of the population that we wouldn't survive it at all.

 

[The Heretic]

That said, it is often an entertaining premise.

 

[jbett98]

This book reminds me of A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr.

 

[bbbass]

This book reminds me of A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr.

Wow, THAT ^^^ tickled some long lost memories!!!

 

[CountryGent]

The Toba catastrophe in around 70,000 BCE wiped out quite a bit of life. Based upon DNA research, the estimate is only something like 3,000—10,000 early humans survived. Of those, studies have found as little as 40 to 1,000 were reproductive adults. So, indeed, there have been times when it became pretty touch and go for humanity.

 

[Siglvr]

Toba catastrophe

Ancient Humans Weathered the Toba Supervolcano Just Fine

"Ancient Humans Weathered the Toba Supervolcano Just Fine
New studies suggest the largest eruption in the last 2 million years didn't push humanity to the edge of extinction as previously hypothesized"

HMMMMM

 

[cigars]

First the internet dies? McLovin' it. The first wave of zombies to fight off will be those who can't fathom life without a rectangular pacifier in their hands. That will be the dangerous wave. The next wave will be those who didn't prepare for anything beyond the next days morning Starbucks. You've heard about the "rooftop Koreans"? Get ready for the "get off my lawn Lithuanians".

 

[The Heretic]

First the internet dies? McLovin' it. The first wave of zombies to fight off will be those who can't fathom life without a rectangular pacifier in their hands. That will be the dangerous wave. The next wave will be those who didn't prepare for anything beyond the next days morning Starbucks. You've heard about the "rooftop Koreans"? Get ready for the "get off my lawn Lithuanians".

Would You Quit Facebook for $500? Or Give Up Google for $17,000? The Fed Wants to Know

The calculations could factor into GDP.

money.com

Without the internet I would not have a job.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This is why I chiselled a cat playing a piano on my wall so I'm all set.

 

[P7M13]

that civilization completely forgets most if not all of previous knowledge and technology.

If you look at the propensity for humans to rely on their technological crutches, yes, the structures of prior knowledge are reduced to trash heaps.
Methods of thought are replaced with ones that rely on technology, and with the death of technology, the base methods are then lost.
With the exponential reduction in printed material, texts will disappear at an alarming rate.

How many phone numbers can you remember now, compared to 25 years ago?
Math is no longer taught with pencil and paper.
Those of us who can still perform calculus, trigonometric or geometric calculations in our heads are an alarming few.
For those of you who even know what a slide rule is, do you remember how to use it?
I'm astounded at the number of people who can't read analog clocks, maps, or cursive writing.

 

[The Heretic]

Some of those things I would have to look up to remember again. But I know how to do them, I just need a refresher. There are enough people that know how to do things that they can teach/remind others. Also, the idea that something can be done is as important as knowing how to do it. Once we proved that we could explode a nuclear weapon and create nuclear reactors, then everybody wanted to do it, and now kids make nukes in their basement.

Albert Einstein on the power of ideas and imagination in science

What do economic sociology and political economy, or social and political sciences in general, have to do with Albert Einstein?.. you might probably ask. Well, they do — and hopefully at the …

economicsociology.org

Electric motors are not going to disappear overnight. Even if the electronics that currently control them to be more efficient are burnt out by an EMP/CME, the motor itself should still be good. Ditto with gensets. Given these mechanisms, I still remember enough of my EE degree to be able to put together a genset to generate electrical power, and to be able to use that electricity to drive a motor to power machine tools.

Even if most IC electronics get friend in an EMP/CME, not all of them will. From there we can rebuild the capacity to create new ICs and from there more computers. Even if all of the ICs did get destroyed, we would still have discrete analog electronics that can be used to create digital computers - we would not have to go back to tubes (but we could).

Either way, we wouldn't go back to a pre-industrial age (much less stone age). That would take a global thermonuclear war or dino killer asteroid to accomplish - something that would not just destroy electronics, but electrical and mechanical systems physically. If the scenario went that far, it is possible that humans would die out from the incident almost immediately. Game over.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The second sheep is pretty black..

 

[Legion489]

Well if you look at the "Fall of Rome" (the "fall" of Rome is dated as the last time Rome was looted, as there was nothing left that could be carried away by a person on foot or wagon) an immense amount of knowledge was lost. Radiant heating, plumbing, the Colosseum could and was roofed over, too many references by Romans and foreigners to prove it, "modern" science still doesn't know how it was done. The Colosseum could be flooded to six to eight feet (naval "battles", everyone knoew who would win) possibly deeper, no idea how now. Self opening doors, "films" (mechanical plays), astrolabes, etc. The Fall of Rome lead to the Dark Ages. Now we have people who don't what/which bathroom to use, have been on welfare for several generations with no work history, the list goes on and boggles the mind.

 

[The Heretic]

Oh a lot of people would die, maybe millions, but there are a LOT of smart and educated people who can do things that would be useful. I know how electric motors, IC engines, computers, electronics, electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic, pulley and lever systems and other things work (and I have printed books on how they work). There is a lot of basic knowledge out there that is spread wide and far.

Also, as I said, people know these things are possible - which is not something that was known in the stone or even 'dark' ages. Today people know about germs/viruses/bacteria, chemicals, the human body and so on - stuff that wasn't known 300-400 years ago.

I could go on and on, but it would take a purposeful effort to wipe out the knowledge we have now - someone would have to go around and kill anybody who had this knowledge for over a generation.

 

[The Heretic]

Technology is not what we are in danger of losing our "how to" knowledge of - it is the underlying basic skills.

E.G., how would someone make concrete or bricks from scratch (without being handed a sack of ingredients)? How many people can forge steel? Or even iron? From rock? Where and how would they get coal?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The Foxfire series and others of this type are your friend here...
In regards to "How to" , when you "Don't have"....

On to the OP Topic...
Thanks for the post..will have to look the book up....always enjoy these types of reads...
Don't want to live 'em...but I will read about it....
Andy