Booby-trapped ammo puts Syrian rebels on edge

[BoonDocks36]

.... SNIPPED TO ... also for someone trying to say i have been disrespectful, you have really made it a point to attack me for my opinions on the grounds that im not a man; which really doesnt make sense considering we've never met.

Me:

Or, as the saying goes, no offense meant here: you are just Not a MAN.

My statement was obvious,and to me Not an attack, YMMV

as far as the rest goes i think you guys have taken what i have said as an attack on individuals making personal decisions for self preservation as opposed to what i was actually talking about; namely policies set forth by the leadership.

Kevin, With All due respect, had you read Again, what I posted, you would come to ynderstand several things....

Primarily, it is mentally impossible, for those who have not been to war, to Understand War.

And how you posted the last, of what I quote, in this reply, it is obvious you have Not got the ability, to understand why we have been in wars. I would almost think that you believe that each combat soldier gets to decide For Them Self each step they take, and that is not reality.

If combat is happening, it needs leadership, and direction... Its not each one goes his own way, and maybe we will win.

I can understand your Not Wanting to enlist.... But the end of the story is this... We each will need to gather together, and fight a common enemy... If that day comes to that point, and whether you want involvement in that, or not, there will be ~That Time~ and all will choose, side A or side B

Each has its reasons for what will come to be, the Question will be, how does one determine the correct side?

I'll not ask for a reply, you need to answer questions for yourself, and it seems you think you already know the answer, my suggestion is, "It has not been understood", to make the correct decision.

philip

 

[Burt Gummer]

Boon,

To be fair then lets just say we've killed more people with WMDs and Chemical gas/phosphorus/Agent Orange in the last 70 years. There, better? Pretty easy to back that up. I don't see large numbers in those links comparatively. Plus you are missing the point. Those nations don't claim the right to be the world's moral judge like we do.

You are confusing love of country with criticism of the acts of government. Government by definition is the opposite of individual freedom and liberty. It isn't there to 'give you freedom.' It is there always, in all forms, to take. (Exception being a Republic which we were only for a few short years).

Let's not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Worst Terror Attacks in History | Global Research Outside of the propaganda, nothing more than mass murder of civilians with WMDs. No other country, not even those awful godless Russians were even that barbaric.

White phosphorus used on women and children in Iraq. http://www.globalresearch.ca/americ...ted-uranium-the-fate-of-iraq-s-children/30372
Clothes and bones there only; everything else, flesh, eyes, blood slowly burned away.

Depleted Uranium used in Iraq and Afghanistan, also 'we' had no regard for our own soldiers safety/exposure aka Gulf War "Syndrome" http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374

We obviously have no moral high ground. We torture - that would have been unheard of just a couple decades ago - now it is just fine and dandy. We learned from the best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0igorvoBFs

The point being made, and I believe it is very reasonable, is that we are not qualified to be the world's moral judge when it comes to waging war.

You may want to see things w/o the 'we can do no wrong' bias, or that we have the blessing of a higher power (laughable).

No one comes close to us in the WMD dept, but we want to police everyone else. The height of hypocrisy. http://theweek.com/article/index/249617/americas-weapons-of-mass-destruction-by-the-numbers

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wmd-do...of-chemical-weapons-against-civilians/5348974

We rush in, we murder, we occupy; all based on latter-admitted lies and then have no remorse whatsoever. Iraq? One million+ women and children DEAD based on lies. Idiot Americans? Too busy making dollar bills ya'll and typing on Facebook to care.

We are simply a clandestine empire with a non-thinking, apathetic populace of government worshipers. Otherwise known as the falsely patriotic. You know, 30s Germans on Steroids. Flag in car window, very proud of their birth lottery.

Sadly, that transpired due to mass propaganda and mind control, some very 'evil' (MKultra), some less evil but potent (use of basic psychology as a weapon; see Edward Bernais change US citizens to US consumers). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDsI-zk6gfE Specifically Bernais - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiKMmrG1ZKU

Rational, independent thought is any government's worst enemy. A hive mentality of us vs them is a tyrannical government's wet dream. Create enemies where they don't exist. Stir the pot. Profit from war and advances in social control. The tribal us vs them mindset is inflicted on us via government schools from infancy. Depending on the place in time, gov selects who is currently 'them' for us and we comply in herd fashion.

Support tyranny 'there' and don't complain when you have all out tyranny here. Yes, that includes the 2A which is surely doomed at some point. No way does a populace this stupid remain 'free' indefinitely.

THE PEOPLE are waking up though. They are just helpless to do anything to stop tyranny here or abroad. We have no say, no power, no choice. We have controllers and owners. The best slave to own is a slave who falsely believes he is free.

Americans are pacified slaves and post economic collapse -when our bombs cannot keep the dollar as the world's reserve currency - the curtain will be pulled back so to speak and the debt bubble we've enjoyed for 50 years will be forever gone.

 

[U201491]

as the saying goes "all's fair in love and war"

Pretty much................

 

[U201491]

To fight is an individual choice. To survive is a different matter altogether.

I won't judge anyone who decides one way or the other, but at my back I want survivors.

 

[U201491]

Sgt Nambu, "no sweat, GI, ..." I mean, what they going to do, send us to VietNam??? BTDT, Got the Booby Prize for attending the South East Asian War College, RVN Campus...



philip,
learning how to identify the youngsters on the internet... Here in BoonDocks, which was way too similar to TayNinh last night, but was Oregon again, when the Sun Rose....

A lot of truth here.
I will never forget that day. We almost didn't have the VN WAR.
I believe that was going to be his message that day.

http://mobile.wnd.com/2013/09/was-jfk-1st-victim-of-new-world-order/

 

[Kevinkris]

Me:

Primarily, it is mentally impossible, for those who have not been to war, to Understand War.

actually i understand full well what war is but if you were to say i dont understand what it is like to be in war, you would be right. nor does anything you have said give any real justification to using heinous tactics in war against an enemy. also repeating the same things in different ways does not change the fact that you are wrong about who i am.

 

[unklekippy]

I will not argue against your POV.

I will say for the record, I believed in what I served for,in RVN.

If you were there, I will thank you for that time, and welcome you home



YES. And if you really talk to any person of the ages where RVN was happening, you would hear No Complaints that we did what we could.

Study. SEATO we were part of that .ORG and like NATO, did supply major numbers of combat troops.

Study. New Zealand's RVN Troops.

Study. Australian RVN Troops

Study. ROK Marine RVN Troops, the most vicious warrior in RVN HISTORY, a ROK Marine, not just any particular Marine, any one of thm sent, to Protect RVN from Communism.

Ask any grunt, who did R&R in Australia, just how many Beers they GOT to buy.... Usual answer: ZERO, because the AUSSIES knew, from WWII they Could be Next, if RVN fell. In our closing of the war.... We made it clear.... Stay self-Contained, but communism, is like Cancer.

You CUT it ALL out, or it regrows. Same Same, islam. NOW:

Study. The real history of that time, say how the French asked us to help them di di mao, big time.... I know an French RVN VET, he lives in Coos Bay.... If he is still alive, that is....



As to the last section... I will Reply thus. In 1975, I tutored ESL, in Tacoma WA, and my one on one student was a young VietNamese girl... Who invited me, and my wife, HOME, to meet her family...

Only, because her Father & Mother wanted to personally thank ME, for serving in RVN. And their ~thanks~ was with tears flowing unabashadly down their faces, for they were part of he first "BOAT PEOPLE" to get here.... And Proudly they said thank you, for Teaching our Daughter, AMERICAN ENGLISH.

I end this, because, you could continue, For Six Months... To label me a "pimped out mercenary..." And I would just say, that is your opinion, you are justified to have one...

BUT NEVER, Will I Forget the Gratitude, of all the VietNamese I knew, and know today... So your WORDS fall upon deaf ears, to your twisted (My Opinion) logic

philip
I am PROUD of my Service, I am a PATRIOT. but I hate the present .GOV, nuff said

BoonDocks, I've grown to love you. With that, an explanation is in order. W got off on the wrong foot some time ago regarding war(s) that we have entered in the semi-recent past. I want to be clear that I have no doubt of your intentions or actions. I appreciate the story of the ESL tutoring, but in my opinion(that part is important. It's only my opinion.), we entered that war to make a decision for a people that already made the decision. That so many American's and Vietnamese on both sides died and communism STILL won. Couldn't we have had the same result without the loss of life? Of course, hindsight is 20/20 and if the world weren't weary of another nuclear strike, we could have won.

Though I was born in 1978, like you, I made a decision to do what I thought was right. Unlike you, I have serious regrets. Regrets that wake you up at night. That make you wish 2002 & 2003 didn't even happen.

I sincerely apologize to you, BoonDocks36. I hope all is well and I hope you understand, because that is the first and last time I type about it on this or any website.

 

[oknow]

catchy doesnt make it right.

Maybe not but getting home is what counts.

 

[BoonDocks36]

Unklekeppy, All is well, and BION, has been, I may have in the past, and will so again state Opposing POV's towards some one's post, that never in my my makes us enemies, just variance on a Topic !!!!

It is easy to get bent out of shape, when some one posts opposing views especially on the internet, I count myself in that statment, First & Formost !!!!! But I have, in my life seen reason to be flexible and bend with the wind....

Take care my friend, Blessing upon you, & yours.

philip
In the Boon Docks, it is mildly raining, for Oregon, for California, the Moonbeam would have announced the area a disaster zone

 

[BoonDocks36]

actually i understand full well what war is

Actually you Believe you understand war, two different things

You can read about war... You can watch, Filmed during war documentories... You can have personal friends who have been to war... But Until you Smell War, Have had War, personally Speak Your NAME, Until you have heard War Pass you BY, but felt its voice on your bare skin...

You can not understand War.

but if you were to say i dont understand what it is like to be in war, you would be right.

I watched a Mother give Birth, as an EMT student, Circa 1974. I watched my DIL give Birth to her daughter.... So I understand Birth???? Nay, I don't have a womb, I did not have my baby kick my insides, I did not cry out in PAIN... I just witnessed it ....

I drive my car into the garage. I am NOT a Car. THESE, are not Understandings, they are awareness of an incident, Second Hand Information.

I am aware, that we bombed Japan with Two Atom Bombs. I do not know, or understand the Bombadeer's feelings of pushing the button, Nor Undertsand, the Commanding Officers Feeling of GIVING the Order... Only aware.

nor does anything you have said give any real justification to using heinous tactics in war against an enemy.

I accept your POV as valid, upon this. In Error, but valid. (See Above).

also repeating the same things in different ways does not change the fact that you are wrong about who i am.

Changing the angle of viewing, may possibly provide a better view, to the observer who is cognizant, the subtle change might provide an answer, hence helpful.

I know, that aging, combined with intelligence provides Maturity. I know both Mature, and Imature Ten Year old boys. i know both Mature, and Imature 50 year old men.

I would trust a Mature thinking Ten year old Boy, before ever trusting an Imature 50 year old man... Ponder that for a day or two....

Bottom line Kevin, I mean you No Harm. I simply hear in your writings, a lack of a well founded education. not as bad as the new Obamma 5+5=11 (find and read that thread) but sort of like 5+5=9.975/10.03 almost, only counts in Horse shoes, and Hand Grenades.

philip
In the Boon Docks, class dismissed, I am hungry for second breakfast, and did not get to eat first Breakfast. Mountain Man Coffee, three eggs, Poached, this time, I think, and whole wheat toast, dry, I ran out of butter, and its not worth the trip versus, eating NOW.

 

[Kevinkris]

again, you are only sidestepping my comments. also it is not difficult to understand war without going to war, i dont know what it means to be in war but YES i understand what war is. instead of diverting the conversation by making personal attacks on my intellect you should be doing the more constructive thing; ie: explaining why you think my opinion lacks substance.

and if you still think i dont understand what war is, you should look up the definition of understand before you, yet again attack my intelligence.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

again, you are only sidestepping my comments. also it is not difficult to understand war without going to war, i dont know what it means to be in war but YES i understand what war is. instead of diverting the conversation by making personal attacks on my intellect you should be doing the more constructive thing; ie: explaining why you think my opinion lacks substance.

and if you still think i dont understand what war is, you should look up the definition of understand before you, yet again attack my intelligence.

Boy, I wanted to stay out of this one! Kevin, you understand war on an intellectual basis! Now I'm going to sound all liberal. To really understand war you have to FEEL it! The fear, the sorrow, the hopelessness, guilt, physical misery and simple homesickness. There is more, I'm sure, but I haven't been in really heavy combat. I have lost a comrad, been covered in his blood! Had a cement hard sandbag inches from my head vaporize when a 14.5mm machine gun slug hit! Been infiltrated and sniped at and suffered physically from cold and heat etc. All of these things changed me profoundly. All the more for our friends on the site who suffered to be in heavy combat! I am personally pleased that you are a moral, decent person. However, a tiny bit more sympathy and a little less criticism for guys that have the experience seems to be in order. If I have to slip some C-4 into an enemy cartridge instead of shooting him, small difference to me!

 

[Kevinkris]

dont get me wrong, i have nothing against those who have done what they feel was necessary to survive war. my criticism is on making impersonal attacks as a force norm rather than meeting on a battlefield. i also get the point that wars arent met on the traditional view of a battlefield anymore. its also important to realize killing someone with your bare hands and with any conceivable distant action, event or circumstance is really only different because of how one feels about doing it. my argument through the whole conversation has been that it is immoral to use tactics that can reach more than the intended targets. when you bomb villages, cities or town and/or leave booby traps, you are putting others at the same risk as the enemy. the more distance you put yourself between yourself and the enemy, the more likely you are to kill or injure someone who does not deserve it. we've seen it in recent history and in current conflicts. it does not make me happy to say that if you do something you feel is immoral you should have to live with the personal experience but if you kill an innocent person with a trap you left for someone, you should not be able to right it off as an accident because it wasnt intended for them.

imagine if you fired a shot at someone and hit an innocent person behind them by mistake... it is clear that you had good reason to fire but writing it off as a mistake is not an immoral decision. then you leave a grenade trap on an enemy body just to have an aid worker be killed by it. this is immoral, simply because you purposely left the trap to indiscriminately who ever moved the body. you gave up control over the action to make yourself feel better about it.

and for those who feel those people deserve what they get because they are surrounded by terrorist should seek counseling. you should also realize an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Apologies for seeming to infer that you had anything against the vets! Never my intent!

 

[U201491]

Boy, I wanted to stay out of this one! Kevin, you understand war on an intellectual basis! Now I'm going to sound all liberal. To really understand war you have to FEEL it! The fear, the sorrow, the hopelessness, guilt, physical misery and simple homesickness. There is more, I'm sure, but I haven't been in really heavy combat. I have lost a comrad, been covered in his blood! Had a cement hard sandbag inches from my head vaporize when a 14.5mm machine gun slug hit! Been infiltrated and sniped at and suffered physically from cold and heat etc. All of these things changed me profoundly. All the more for our friends on the site who suffered to be in heavy combat! I am personally pleased that you are a moral, decent person. However, a tiny bit more sympathy and a little less criticism for guys that have the experience seems to be in order. If I have to slip some C-4 into an enemy cartridge instead of shooting him, small difference to me!

You never hear the one that gets you. Fact !

 

[Sgt Nambu]

You never hear the one that gets you. Fact !

Yeah, but the near misses will make you..........well.........really, really analy retentive!!!

 

[BoonDocks36]

Sgt. Nambu wrote:

I have lost a comrad, been covered in his blood! Had a cement hard sandbag inches from my head vaporize when a 14.5mm machine gun slug hit! Been infiltrated and sniped at and suffered physically from cold and heat etc. All of these things changed me profoundly.

Taku wrote:

You never hear the one that gets you. Fact !

philip wrote:

But Until you Smell War, Have had War, personally Speak Your NAME, Until you have heard War Pass you BY, but felt its voice on your bare skin...

Kevin wrote:

actually i understand full well what war is

sorry Kevin. I will say that I will agree to disagree with you. I read your words, but see as was in that movie... "a failure to communicate", son, I knew the word intelligence, before you were born. I had the conversation Given to ME, that I shared with you, before you were Born... and yes, I have not a clue, of you IRL birthday.

Your anger of & at my words is probably blinding you, from seeing what I have ~tried~ to share, and repeatedly said I mean you know harm, do you Comprehend that last sentence, I am trying to give you advice, HOW you choose to take it, or reject it, is up to you.

I'll not comment at or towards you any further in this thread, unless you specifically ask me to, for I see the anger in your replies to me, Hell, I have had that same anger at old foggies who spoke to me like I have to you, in this thread!!!!

Comprende' Senor? No harm Ever Intended, your intelligent, and have a fervor for your beliefs, but you base your beliefs upon what I see as:

2+2=3.9978, or 4.0105 But not FourPOINTZero !!!!

philip
in the BoonDocks, shaking his head, at todays youth..... and For me, that means Any One under 50. you could ask why, But then I would probably tell you

 

[BoonDocks36]

Yeah, but the near misses will make you..........well.........really, really analy retentive!!!

Yes, there ~is~ either a real Pucker Factor in Near Misses....

OR, and I know one who experienced This: A complete Enema Factor, Often called "the Brown Pants Syndrome"

that last one: he came into TayNinh a fresh Fresh troopie, he had heard of "Rocket City" (TayNinh's ~other name~)... well, we were in a dry spell.... no mortars or rockets... had been that way, for two days....

We old timers get Really Nervous with no metal rain, after say Five Days..... this dry spell lasted 12???? I remember it was quite consternating, cause Darn it all to smithereen's, It just Ain't Normal

Mr Green Horn, was giving us flack, on his own though, telling us ~all about it, don'cha know~

then that first round came in.... "he" was on the flight line (there are Only TWO targets on an air base, HelioPeters, and the fuel they fly with....), the Mortar landed about a Hundred yards away from him....

He... err.... lost his pucker power????

Well Mr. Green Pants was called "BrownPants", for the rest of the time I was there, about four months, IIRC, he learned the hard way, not to make fun, of old timers, for they will remind you, of your errors, for "a while".....

philip
in the BoonDocks, it was a good day, house keeper vacuumed my living room, while I built the hard top for my 93 Isuzu Amigo... it will be all Baltic Birch Plywood, except the side panels: they will be 1/4" Tempered Masonite, as they will not be holding weight....... Photo's at 11 O'Clock NEWS

 

[Kevinkris]

im not angry, i can clearly see you are just confused and i dont hold it against you.

 

[U201491]

Let's not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Worst Terror Attacks in History | Global Research Outside of the propaganda, nothing more than mass murder of civilians with WMDs. No other country, not even those awful godless Russians were even that barbaric.

That response is not true Burt.

This is one of the best explanations I have read. Those 2 bombs actually saved millions of lives in the end, both Americans and Japanese. The Japanese were a hundred times more tenacious and dedicated to their fight than all the Islamic Jihadists put together. My dad fought throughout the Pacific in WWII and
would affirm many times in stories, the fact of them being a damned tough and determined enemy.
I think this though explains if very well.

quoted as follows.

"The United States dropped the bombs to end the war without having to invade the main islands of Japan.

Given the nature of Japan today and the low understanding of history among Americans today, few here have an understanding of the Pacific Theater. The Japanese soldier was a religious fanatic, preferring death for the emperor over surrender and defeat. There is a reason that very few Japanese soldiers were taken prisoner.

As American forces came closer to the Japanese homeland, the fighting intensified. In the Battle of Okinawa, which was the first of the Japanese home islands to be attacked, Japan lost 66,000 dead from a garrison of 100,000 soldiers. An additional 75,000 to 140,000 civilians died, with the majority committing suicide by throwing themselves off cliffs. In contrast, the bombing of Hiroshima killed 140,000 and Nagasaki killed 80,000.

There are those who believe that the Japanese government would have surrendered following a successful invasion of the home islands. Post-war discoveries of Japanese plans and preparations for an invasion simply show that to be false. The Japanese government and military planned a spirited, hard-nosed defense of their main islands. Despite their losses in the Pacific theater, the Japanese had managed to marshal about 10,000 aircraft for the defense of their main islands.

Would the Japanese fight? The Japanese launched over 1,500 kamikaze attacks during the Battle of Okinawa. Very few of the 10,000 aircraft marshaled for the defense of the home islands were capable of conventional air operations. However, loaded with explosives those planes became guided missiles with human pilots at the controls. In addition to the suicide air force, the Japanese Navy had 1,000 Kaiten manned torpedoes and the Army had 800 Shin'yō suicide boats. A Kaiten torpedo was basically a torpedo that was guided to its target by a swimmer. A Japanese commander once complained to his general that his attack failed because he ran out of ammo. The general informed the commander that lack of ammo was not an excuse for failure.

U.S. commanders were expecting between 500,000 and one million American casualties during an assault on the main islands. To give you an idea, commanders ordered 500,000 Purple Hearts manufactured in preparation for the assault. The Purple Hearts that are being issued today in Afghanistan and Iraq were made to be given to troops injured in attacking Japan. That stockpile has supplied Purple Hearts to soldiers in Korea and Vietnam. Given the standard ratio of WW2 deaths to injuries, estimates were that 100,000 to 250,000 American soldiers would die in an invasion of Japan.

Japanese casualties depended on whether or not civilians would fight or commit suicide, as they did on Okinawa. Japan had 60 divisions at its disposal to combat an invasion of the main islands, although only 30 had adequate equipment and ammo. The Japanese also had raised a Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps consisting of all able-bodied men and women not in the military. The Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps was armed with muzzle-loading muskets, longbows and bamboo spears. American estimates of Japanese casualties from an invasion of Japan were between five million (5,000,000) and 10 million (10,000,000). Given the evidence of Japanese resistance during the Pacific Campaign, where death was preferred to surrender, most of those would be dead (remember, 66,000 Japanese troops out of a garrison of 100,000 on Okinawa were killed in action -- there were 17,000 injured and just under 7,500 taken prisoner).

Some have said that we could have bombed Japan conventionally. If you look at pictures of Tokyo in 1945 and Hiroshima after the bomb, it's hard to tell the difference. On March 9-10, U.S. bombers dropped 17 tons of bombs, setting off a firestorm in Tokyo that killed an estimated 100,000 people, more than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. That was one raid. From February to August, 1945, the U.S. launched about 15 raids on Tokyo.

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were demonstrations to the Japanese government of what we could do. The cities were chosen because they had suffered little damage prior to the dropping of the atomic bombs and American military and political leaders wanted Japanese military and political leaders to know the damage came from a single bomb.

There is some question about whether the Nagasaki bomb needed to be dropped with some saying that the bomb on Hiroshima had the desired effect and that Japan was talking about surrender after the first bomb. Still, note that Japan did not surrender until after the bomb was dropped on Nagasaki."

- end quote

The Japanese were dedicated and would never have surrendered had they not been used.