Booby-trapped ammo puts Syrian rebels on edge

[Certaindeaf]

I've been enjoying this new news feed called Vocativ..
in this piece, they talk about booby-trapped ammo.

<broken link removed>

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[Sgt Nambu]

It would certainly put me on edge! I remember reading about the CIA putting C-4 into various munitions in Vietnam to good effect.

 

[jbett98]

It would certainly put me on edge! I remember reading about the CIA putting C-4 into various munitions in Vietnam to good effect.

Or short fuse a hand grenade left on a trail.

 

[Ligito]

Stealth? What is stealth?

 

[U201491]

We left explosive ammo all over VN
Remember project Eldest Son.

The VC had a scavenger mindset. It is what made them a formidable enemy.
But it left them open to use booby traps on, which they also used to exploit Americans.

General description.....

Think Like the Viet Cong

http://www.everycitizenasoldier.org/id55.html

Islamists have the same mindset.

 

[Kevinkris]

its still an underhanded way of war. i dont have any empathy for many of them considering a great deal if not the majority are truly bad people but tricking them into killing themselves is a terrible thing to do.

 

[JV100]

Well, we need to remember that the rebels are doing our dirty work and mostly be instructed and led by us. The cia has been in Syria for a long time now. The only reason they have held out this long is because of the cia and spec ops. Anyone thinking otherwise is crazy, Americas "interests" are top priority like it or not.

 

[U201491]

its still an underhanded way of war. i dont have any empathy for many of them considering a great deal if not the majority are truly bad people but tricking them into killing themselves is a terrible thing to do.

There is nothing unfair in a war against evil !
In the case of Syria, it is evil against evil. The rest of the world wins by simple attrition. Actually one of the better ways to fight those wars and terrorists. Let them beat themselves.

 

[unklekippy]

It would certainly put me on edge! I remember reading about the CIA putting C-4 into various munitions in Vietnam to good effect.

Hell yes. Cut out the C-4 into the diameter of the projectile, pull the bullet, empty the charge, insert C-4, replace projectile, bury 5 deep in a mag or belt and watch Haji(or Charlie) blow himself to his virgins.

Just don't leave it in loose ammo! It's heavier and they actually learn to look for that stuff. The way I hear it, this tactic started in Vietnam. I ain't above using it and it works from the jungle to the desert to the snow(we may need to fool Ivan soon enough).

 

[BoonDocks36]

its still an underhanded way of war. i dont have any empathy for many of them considering a great deal if not the majority are truly bad people but tricking them into killing themselves is a terrible thing to do.

Kevin, no offense meant, but have you Been in War????

Circa 1969 ... I saw my first 2 Viet Cong. I was reporting TO a Huey, landing on our Air Base. The MP's were there, not a usual aspect, I met these Huey's often, as they delivered parts, just like a UPS Truck, except, the units who were receiving, went to the heliopeter, not the same as Brown shirt ringing your doorbell....

But you get the point, OK?

Might be four, five "units" or departments that would be there for ~delivery~ for instance, I got Aircraft radios, and signal corps supplies, maybe Bob was there for tail rotar bearings, for an overhaul at Maintaince Shop... Oh, we went through M60 barrels, like tooth picks at a Steak & Beer joint... All delivered by heliopeter.

The older of the two, was Thirteen. She had a Mortar tube on her back, when captured.
The younger, her brother, was carrying two mortars.

This they did, if you wish to say, "willingly" as their Mother and Grandparents were (typically) held hostage, and would be murdered, with or For Non-Compliance. Since they did not return, Nor Mortars go poop poop, the Murder(s) happened anyway....

I share this story, now, with More details than the first time, because the first time I shared it, someone labled me a baby killer... Nope, I just did not share Why I was there, and got tosee the Two Viet Cong.

You think it wrong, to label to children, (who BTW, are the current ages of my two youngest Grandchildren IRL) VC????

Had they Not been captured, they would have launched the 2 Mortars at us, I might have not come home from Viet Nam... Odds are that way... It came close Three times, Real Close ONCE. One closer, is to many.

NOW, Kevin, Three questions, then I will sign off....

1. Is what I described "an underhanded way of war"???? Y/N ????????????
2. More important: If you were in those childrens position, would you, at your current age, Do what they Had to do, to protect your WIFE, or CHILDREN????? Maybe it would be ...

.... Your PARENTS being held hostage. Y/N ????????????

3. Last question, would you do Anything... TO fight against those who would do Anything so Barbaric as I described Y/N ????????????

"War! Is not healthy, for children, and other living things...." Anti-War poster, on my Barracks Wall, POST-VietNam, Mannhiem Germany, 1970/71 It took me a decade... A Decade to unwind a bit, from what I saw over there....

It is Forty Three years, I am Not done unwinding YET

And I can give you My answers, to those three questions, asked above. Especially #3.

philip

On my bad days, the Boon Docks remind me a lot like VietNam, but... I can usually pull myself back together... Like most.... Who have Smelled WAR.

 

[BoonDocks36]

Unklekeppy ....

I like tens of thousands in VietNam, cooked with C4

Hell yes. Cut out the C-4 into the diameter of the projectile, pull the bullet, empty the charge, insert C-4, replace projectile

You open up a claymore... And pinch off a piece... Dig a very narrow trench, insert a Pea Sized portion, light with match. Place C-Rat can over trench, flip can as needed, remove just, Just As the can starts to "pop" or expand the lid....

But you Never do what you suggest: any sort of compacting force can, May, or WILL cause detenation.

So, cutting is really not advised... Nor, replace projectile Without CAREFUL consideration of quantity & Location of C4 It does cause serious damage, when mis-treated, and does NOT CARE who does the mistake.

philip
I'll leave the blowing up humans by reloading munitions to people More Brave than myself, and I used to climb telephone poles in the NIGHT to repair damaged lines, That is not for the faint hearted oriented peoples...

 

[U201491]

Kevin, no offense meant, but have you Been in War????

Circa 1969 ... I saw my first 2 Viet Cong. I was reporting TO a Huey, landing on our Air Base. The MP's were there, not a usual aspect, I met these Huey's often, as they delivered parts, just like a UPS Truck, except, the units who were receiving, went to the heliopeter, not the same as Brown shirt ringing your doorbell....

But you get the point, OK?

Might be four, five "units" or departments that would be there for ~delivery~ for instance, I got Aircraft radios, and signal corps supplies, maybe Bob was there for tail rotar bearings, for an overhaul at Maintaince Shop... Oh, we went through M60 barrels, like tooth picks at a Steak & Beer joint... All delivered by heliopeter.

The older of the two, was Thirteen. She had a Mortar tube on her back, when captured.
The younger, her brother, was carrying two mortars.

This they did, if you wish to say, "willingly" as their Mother and Grandparents were (typically) held hostage, and would be murdered, with or For Non-Compliance. Since they did not return, Nor Mortars go poop poop, the Murder(s) happened anyway....

I share this story, now, with More details than the first time, because the first time I shared it, someone labled me a baby killer... Nope, I just did not share Why I was there, and got tosee the Two Viet Cong.

You think it wrong, to label to children, (who BTW, are the current ages of my two youngest Grandchildren IRL) VC????

Had they Not been captured, they would have launched the 2 Mortars at us, I might have not come home from Viet Nam... Odds are that way... It came close Three times, Real Close ONCE. One closer, is to many.

NOW, Kevin, Three questions, then I will sign off....

1. Is what I described "an underhanded way of war"???? Y/N ????????????
2. More important: If you were in those childrens position, would you, at your current age, Do what they Had to do, to protect your WIFE, or CHILDREN????? Maybe it would be ...

.... Your PARENTS being held hostage. Y/N ????????????

3. Last question, would you do Anything... TO fight against those who would do Anything so Barbaric as I described Y/N ????????????

"War! Is not healthy, for children, and other living things...." Anti-War poster, on my Barracks Wall, POST-VietNam, Mannhiem Germany, 1970/71 It took me a decade... A Decade to unwind a bit, from what I saw over there....

It is Forty Three years, I am Not done unwinding YET

And I can give you My answers, to those three questions, asked above. Especially #3.

philip

On my bad days, the Boon Docks remind me a lot like VietNam, but... I can usually pull myself back together... Like most.... Who have Smelled WAR.

You enter a war and the first goal is to end that war and go home.
Anyone getting between you and that end goal is going to be dead, maimed or taken out of action by what ever means at your disposal. Nothing is unfair and no one too young or too old to die if they are able to carry and use arms. It is really that simple. If you flinch at any of it, you do not reach your end game.

 

[BoonDocks36]

Taku, you old fogie... You know that... I know that, a couple of other old buzzards here know that, as well.

I always wonder, and even sometimes guess, at the ages of "posters" like Kevin, above.

Meh. My youngest daughter, mother to those GChildren I mentioned... She is a product of the communist agenda NEA school teachers. She is so progressive, she could sell car insurance... Pun there.

But she does not believe, we even had just cause to be in VietNam. Never heard of SEATO like NATO. Never learned of the OTHER COUNTRIES that fought, beside us, sometimes in front of us... To keep communism from spreading to their Country.

It must not have happened, if she was NOT TAUGHT about it, Correct?

New Zealand
Australia
South Korea
Phillipine Civil Defense Group (AKA Phil CADG, for the sound of the accronym).

I may have left a Country out, I am not sure.... Oh, ARVN's ???? Yeah, they played in the war too.

When I left VietNam, I so needed to be anti-war... I needed MORE, some stand down time... Thirty days, from blistering hot RVN, to Manhiem Germany, and zero Celius... Not good for a body to change like that.

I returned to an understanding, what Freedom requires... I am not a war Hawk, but rather, I am very Pro Freedom, and will fight for it, until my death, if needed.

That is enough for the night.
45 years & 2 days ago, I enlisted, not drafted, into the UNITED STATES ARMY.
12 September, 1968 to 10 August 1971

 

[Grunwald]

Taku, you old fogie... You know that... I know that, a couple of other old buzzards here know that, as well.

I always wonder, and even sometimes guess, at the ages of "posters" like Kevin, above.

Meh. My youngest daughter, mother to those GChildren I mentioned... She is a product of the communist agenda NEA school teachers. She is so progressive, she could sell car insurance... Pun there.

But she does not believe, we even had just cause to be in VietNam. Never heard of SEATO like NATO. Never learned of the OTHER COUNTRIES that fought, beside us, sometimes in front of us... To keep communism from spreading to their Country.

It must not have happened, if she was NOT TAUGHT about it, Correct?

New Zealand
Australia
South Korea
Phillipine Civil Defense Group (AKA Phil CADG, for the sound of the accronym).

I may have left a Country out, I am not sure.... Oh, ARVN's ???? Yeah, they played in the war too.

When I left VietNam, I so needed to be anti-war... I needed MORE, some stand down time... Thirty days, from blistering hot RVN, to Manhiem Germany, and zero Celius... Not good for a body to change like that.

I returned to an understanding, what Freedom requires... I am not a war Hawk, but rather, I am very Pro Freedom, and will fight for it, until my death, if needed.

That is enough for the night.
45 years & 2 days ago, I enlisted, not drafted, into the UNITED STATES ARMY.
12 September, 1968 to 10 August 1971

There was no cause for the US to be there. Additionally the military had no constitutional authority to be deployed there. The power to declare war rest with Congress alone.
Do you seriously think you were fighting for freedom? Whose freedom? Certainly the political structure of a country in Southeast Asia has zero impact on the freedom of people in the US.
Vast majority of Vietnamese were poor peasant farmers and just wanted to be left alone to tend to their fields.
Do you seriously think that someone with their lifestyle has more freedom here or there?
I would bet that even under communism they have a heck of a lot less government regulation to deal with than small farmers in the US. I'm pretty sure they don't have to worry about the FDA, FBI and SWAT raiding their little farms because they sell unpasteurized milk or cheese to someone.

It took me 30 years to realize how misplaced my sense of duty was when I enlisted.
I still look back at most war protesters with scorn. It is not because being anti-war is wrong, but because they are nothing but politically motivated idiotic tools.
I know that I personally will be against any combat deployment of the military unless it is to defend an ally that was attacked by an outside power (civil wars do not count) or the US itself is attacked.
Anything else is just another case of the military being pimped out as cheap mercenaries to benefit and profit those with connections while the monetary costs are borne by the taxpayer and the ultimate cost of limb and life by the next generation of the young and naive.

 

[Kevinkris]

i didnt say anything about fairness, i only said it was underhanded. i also understand the best tactic in war is deception but certain acts in war are cowardice. "when you become the enemy to defeat the enemy, means you have become the enemy."

 

[unklekippy]

Unklekeppy ....

I like tens of thousands in VietNam, cooked with C4

Hell yes. Cut out the C-4 into the diameter of the projectile, pull the bullet, empty the charge, insert C-4, replace projectile

You open up a claymore... And pinch off a piece... Dig a very narrow trench, insert a Pea Sized portion, light with match. Place C-Rat can over trench, flip can as needed, remove just, Just As the can starts to "pop" or expand the lid....

But you Never do what you suggest: any sort of compacting force can, May, or WILL cause detenation.

Sou, cutting is really not advised... Nor, replace projectile Without CAREFUL consideration of quantity & Location of C4 It does cause serious damage, when mis-treated, and does NOT CARE who does the mistake.

philip
I'll leave the blowing up humans by reloading munitions to people More Brave than myself, and I used to climb telephone poles in the NIGHT to repair damaged lines, That is not for the faint hearted oriented peoples...

The way I learned(and I'll admit, 30 years later, in a desert, not a jungle) was to cut out a piece the diameter of the projectile. You want the C-4 to fall into the case where the propellant was just removed. You are absolutely correct, NEVER a compacting force. The best ones looked like 1/4 of a pencil. That is exactly why you put it 5 deep in a mag or belt, the weight and feel of the loose piece in there is a giveaway, not to mention a serious hazard. As you said, C-4 has NO concern who sets off the explosion.

A narrow trench was dug, but never was a pea sized portion used. Enough was used to guarantee ignition, no matter the position of the charge in the case upon ignition. I will never go near any of that bubblegum unless it is brought to my door(clarification: brought to my door by an enemy, not an arms dealer selling me C-4.).

Anyone suggesting "underhanded" tactics, please remember that these people have no qualms using expanding ammo while you run around trying to punch as many 62 grain, .224 holes in them as you can. Give me an M4 with soft pointed ammo and I'd never plant a bomb again in my life. I think the C-4 is God's way of trying to cancel out IED's that remove the legs and reproductive organs of my countrymen(if they're lucky).

 

[Sstrand]

The Norwegians did this to German antiaircraft ammunition at the end of the 2nd world war.
It gave the Kraut gunners 2nd thoughts I'm sure.

Sheldon

 

[U201491]

i didnt say anything about fairness, i only said it was underhanded. i also understand the best tactic in war is deception but certain acts in war are cowardice. "when you become the enemy to defeat the enemy, means you have become the enemy."

In war,
The meek shall inherit the earth......
but only 6 feet of it !

They intended to kill non communists with that ammo.
Ie; limiting that ability was good strategy. Yes, you sometimes have to think like your enemy and even become worse to defeat them. It is called self preservation. War is an ugly thing, but sometimes necessary.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Wow! I always knew that I didn't think like others. Must be a borderline not nice person. It would never occurs to me that there could be a moral objection to attacking the enemy with every asset, thought and fiber of my being. If the enemy doesnt like getting hit with sneaky he needs to stack his weapons and lift his hands. I guess that's why I don't get "limited War".

 

[U201491]

Yeah, the limited war concept drives me nuts too.
If were going to fight, it needs to be with the tenacity to win decisevly by what ever means available.
The only Rules of engagement there should be is kill the enemy before he kills you.
The rest is political bullcrap. Those making up those restrictions are not the ones taking fire.