Bogus Jefferson quote actually from a socialist!

[8ball]

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

You learn something everyday. Jefferson isn't the source of this quote. It was actually from a debate in 1914 by John Basil Barnhill, a socialist.

It gets weirder. Some nutjob named Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn attributed it to Jefferson in 1994 and it spread from there. And who is Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn? From his own lips he is, "Commander in Chief, Earth Project Transition, Pleiades Sector Flight Command, Intergalactic Federation Fleet—Ashtar Command"

I don't think I could have made that up if I tried!

When governments fear the people, there is liberty...(Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson?s Monticello

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[theminutemenrideagain]

You know the communist back in the day said that they would take this country without a single shot being fired, I belive its through things just like this. get the american people to overthrow the government

 

[osterr1999]

Did you read the entire thing. You may have missed the below. It is not clear exactly where is came from, but it is clear that Jefferson would have agreed with it.

"One source attributes this quotation to Thomas Jefferson in The Federalist."

 

[Diamondback]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day... LOL

 

[8ball]

Did you read the entire thing. You may have missed the below. It is not clear exactly where is came from, but it is clear that Jefferson would have agreed with it.

"One source attributes this quotation to Thomas Jefferson in The Federalist."

Yes, a source in 2005 did say that, but they are wrong. Did you read the next sentence?

"One source attributes this quotation to Thomas Jefferson in The Federalist.[4] The Federalist, however, was the work of Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison; it also does not contain the text of this quotation."

What's more likely?

1. This is a real Jefferson quote that went unnoticed for 168 years - from 1826 until uncovered by a pseudonymous conspiracy author in 1994 - but nobody has ever managed to find the source.

2. It's a quote from Barnhill that the conspiracy author decided to attribute to Jefferson in 1994 just because he could.

 

[timac]

John Basil Barnhill was a Anti-Socialist, he made the quote in a debate during the Barnhill-Tichenor Debate. But Thomas Jefferson did make this comment.

"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization,
it expects what never was and never will be....
If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free,
it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."

Keep trying comrade!

 

[8ball]

John Basil Barnhill was a Anti-Socialist, he made the quote in a debate during the Barnhill-Tichenor Debate. But Thomas Jefferson did make this comment.

You are correct - the first source I consulted about Barnhill was wrong. So much for the title of the thread!

After some searching, I found a copy of the original debate at http://debs.indstate.edu/b262b3_1914.pdf and his intro reads:

Indictment of Socialism
By John Basil Banihill
It is a manly and magnanimous impulse which
moves the editor of The National Rip-Saw to permit
me to state the grounds of my opposition to Social
ism in the columns of his magazine. Permit me to
say, Mr. Editor, that such an act appears to me to
constitute a complete demonstration of your sin
cerity. In this connection It is both a pleasure and a
duty to add the weight of my testimony to those who
say that Socialists are terribly sincere, Having held
over three hundred debates with the leading Ameri
can Socialists; a Chautauqua debate with Mr. Dûs
after his nomination for President in 1904, twelve
debates with Father MoGrady, fifty Chautauqua de
bates with Walter Thomas Mills, twenty debates
with Dr. T. E. Will, thirty debates with Mr. Mc
Devitt, twelve debates witfl Mrs. Ida Urouch .H.azlett,
and a series with Kirkpatrick, Fieldman, Gaylord,
Murray King W. S. Dalton, J. W. Slayton, G. Low-
the, J. B. Osborne. etc. In addition to many with
prominent English and Irish Socialists, I ought to be
able to speak with authority on this subject, and I
declare my firm conviction that no body of men was
ever actuated, by more sincere motives ‘than are the
rank and file and most of the leaders of the Socialist
party. After paying them this tribute, I feel justi
fied in proceeding with brutal frankness to the de
struction of all their most cherished dogmas.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

This is the reason I've tried to find the source document of any thing that I quote. I got caught up in a phony quote several years ago, and I learned my lesson from it. So, now, I have the entire "Letters to the Sheriffs of Bristol" on my hard drive....and I've done a LOT more reading to make sure the quote is from the place I think it is. This, I believe, is a good thing, especially since this debate about rights and firearms isn't going away anytime soon.