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Bogus Jefferson quote actually from a socialist!

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by 8ball, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

    You learn something everyday. Jefferson isn't the source of this quote. It was actually from a debate in 1914 by John Basil Barnhill, a socialist.

    It gets weirder. Some nutjob named Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn attributed it to Jefferson in 1994 and it spread from there. And who is Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn? From his own lips he is, "Commander in Chief, Earth Project Transition, Pleiades Sector Flight Command, Intergalactic Federation Fleet—Ashtar Command"

    I don't think I could have made that up if I tried!

    When governments fear the people, there is liberty...(Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson?s Monticello
     
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  2. theminutemenrideagain

    theminutemenrideagain Tigard Member

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    You know the communist back in the day said that they would take this country without a single shot being fired, I belive its through things just like this. get the american people to overthrow the government
     
  3. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    Did you read the entire thing. You may have missed the below. It is not clear exactly where is came from, but it is clear that Jefferson would have agreed with it.

    "One source attributes this quotation to Thomas Jefferson in The Federalist."
     
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  4. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day... LOL
     
  5. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Yes, a source in 2005 did say that, but they are wrong. Did you read the next sentence?

    "One source attributes this quotation to Thomas Jefferson in The Federalist.[4] The Federalist, however, was the work of Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison; it also does not contain the text of this quotation."

    What's more likely?

    1. This is a real Jefferson quote that went unnoticed for 168 years - from 1826 until uncovered by a pseudonymous conspiracy author in 1994 - but nobody has ever managed to find the source.

    2. It's a quote from Barnhill that the conspiracy author decided to attribute to Jefferson in 1994 just because he could.
     
  6. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    John Basil Barnhill was a Anti-Socialist, he made the quote in a debate during the Barnhill-Tichenor Debate. But Thomas Jefferson did make this comment.

    "If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization,
    it expects what never was and never will be....
    If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free,
    it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."

    Keep trying comrade!
     
  7. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    You are correct - the first source I consulted about Barnhill was wrong. So much for the title of the thread! :)

    After some searching, I found a copy of the original debate at http://debs.indstate.edu/b262b3_1914.pdf and his intro reads:

     
  8. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    This is the reason I've tried to find the source document of any thing that I quote. I got caught up in a phony quote several years ago, and I learned my lesson from it. So, now, I have the entire "Letters to the Sheriffs of Bristol" on my hard drive....and I've done a LOT more reading to make sure the quote is from the place I think it is. This, I believe, is a good thing, especially since this debate about rights and firearms isn't going away anytime soon.