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Why do people want to carry ammo that is a minimum of 10 years old (discontinued in 2000) when there is better ammo out there and pay a massive premium for it?

You can buy Winchester SXT which is an updated, improved version of the Talon and can be bought as current production all day long at "normal" prices.

I guess I just dont get it. I know the BT was good for the day, but that was 20 years ago.............
 
Mostly it is just for the collectability of the Black Talons not for carrying. I have Black Talons but would not use it for carry rounds as like you say it is older and the SXT is the same bullet.
 
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Winchester ranger T series. Better than the original talons and nowhere as expensive. I've had several boxes laying around just for collecting. I don't carry any of the old talons, only t series.:s0155:
 
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Round nose FMJ's worked for many years in the .45 .....it usually stopped whatever was running at you.........maybe too much hoopla about the fancy bullets......OK, overpenetration issues in civilian settings would factor in......
 
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Mostly it is just for the collectability of the Black Talons not for carrying. I have Black Talons but would not use it for carry rounds as like you say it is older and the SXT is the same bullet.

+1:s0155:

I have a few boxes that I grabbed when they were being pulled from the market solely for collection/conversation. I wouldn't use them for carry as there are equal or better rounds available for less money. Also, if you ever had to shoot someone in self defense and ended up in court, and the opposing council found out that you were using "those evil black talons that were so deadly they had to be pulled off the market" you never know how the jury would react. They may buy into the argument and cost you.
 
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I don't think there's anyone out there who still carries black talon, I'm sure there's some police Lt. who hasn't pulled his gun out of his holster in 20 years and still has his old wheel gun loaded up with .357 black talons.

I have a bunch of BT ammo I bought shortly after it went off sale (gun shop was closing down) mostly rifle ammo, few boxes of .45. I also have some of the later winchester "fail safe" which is what the BT turned into right after they dropped the BT name. I even have some of the Black Rhino ammo that california banned before it even went on commercial sale. It's supposed to go through a vest, and then explode on the inside. I don't think it does any of that, it's a black bullet, silver casing, the story behind it is worth a few thousand laughs though.
 
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Other than maybe the "magic bullet" that killed Kennedy, I don't think there's ever been any other kind of ammo that's as infamous and well known as black talons. That's why there so expensive, and that's why some people might be inclined to keeping their guns loaded with them, because they still believe all the media hype from back in the day about them being uber deadly and able to shoot through bullet proof vests and tanks and hordes of innocent bystanders and whatnot.

I've got 1 box of black talons in .44mag, and one round in 9mm. I'll never shoot them or carry them, but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing I have them, and if it wasn't for all the negative publicity they got when I was growing up, I would have already gotten rid of them because there's better ammo available for less money.
 
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While in the barber chair yesterday, "Walker, Texas Ranger" was on the television. The episode included a very bad guy shooting deep-undercover federal agents with Black Talons. Of course, Black Talons were portrayed as the epitome of evil. They discussed where the bad guy could have acquired Black Talons and decided it must have come "from the streets" because it wasn't available anywhere else. Finally, they decided they knew of a bad guy in Port Arthur, TX who "sold illegal ammo" and paid him a visit to find out who he had sold the BT to. That info led to the shooter, who Walker then confronted... and kicked his butt.

The funny part was that the Combat Commander under my shirt as I sat there getting my haircut was loaded with Black Talons. I still have 8 or 10 boxes (9 mm and 45 acp) and do carry it. I have no (and never had) illusions of what it will or won't do. There is nothing magical about it. I bought it when it was pulled from the market in 1994 or so, and haven't shot it all up yet. Nothing more complicated than that. There is way to much "mystique" surrounding it, even among people on this board.

This thread should bring some sellers out of the woodwork. Heck, watch for my offer to sell what I have :) Well, maybe not.
 
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With all New HD ammo's on the market, They are not all that great.

I would pick HST over any other.
 

Mark W.

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Last thing I want in my carry gun is any ammo that could be said to be special or designed for killing or handloaded.

I happen to carry some 10-15 year old Winchester Silvertips. And the reason is simple. One day I walked into a Bi Mart store and asked for a box of .44spl ammo. The clerk said all we have is this.. And handed me a box of something called Winchester Silvertips. I figured if silver bullets are good enough for the lone ranger they are good enough for me.

Now if I have to shoot someone and in court they ask me why I had some special hollow point bullet in my gun what was I PLANNING on doing. I can say I bought them like 15+ years ago and the clerk at the store decided what box to hand me telling me they were the only ones they had. ABSOLUTELY no pretought as to the kind of ammo or it's special abilities to kill someone.
 
Last thing I want in my carry gun is any ammo that could be said to be special or designed for killing or handloaded.

I happen to carry some 10-15 year old Winchester Silvertips. And the reason is simple. One day I walked into a Bi Mart store and asked for a box of .44spl ammo. The clerk said all we have is this.. And handed me a box of something called Winchester Silvertips. I figured if silver bullets are good enough for the lone ranger they are good enough for me.

Now if I have to shoot someone and in court they ask me why I had some special hollow point bullet in my gun what was I PLANNING on doing. I can say I bought them like 15+ years ago and the clerk at the store decided what box to hand me telling me they were the only ones they had. ABSOLUTELY no pretought as to the kind of ammo or it's special abilities to kill someone.


Have you ever heard, seen or have any proof of any case that was won or lost based on ammo carried?


.
 
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I remember seeing some odd specialty ammo back in the early / mid 80s that looked wicked - it was a tube with a gas check backer - think wadcutter drilled through the center and the leading edge with a slight taper to give it a sharper edge. The idea was that the gas check would drop off and the bullet would cut a tube of flesh out making surgical repairs more difficult. I never bought into the idea but always thought that it would be neat to have a few rounds for conversation sake.
 

Mark W.

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Have you ever heard, seen or have any proof of any case that was won or lost based on ammo carried?


.

No but then I wouldn't take the time to read up on any such cases. I have much better things to think about then someones civil wrongful death suit that has nothing to do with my life.

I have also been advised to carry non "special" ammo in my carry gun since 1989 when I was testifing on Vera Kats gun bill in 1989 that changed how people in the state of Oregon get CHP's. And when I took the State required class. To get my CHP

I was also advised by a couple of attorneys that if they could they would try to use the "special" ammo as a basis to bring up premeditation or intent. But hey I was just putting in my two cents you do your thing your way is cool.
 
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I remember seeing some odd specialty ammo back in the early / mid 80s that looked wicked - it was a tube with a gas check backer - think wadcutter drilled through the center and the leading edge with a slight taper to give it a sharper edge. The idea was that the gas check would drop off and the bullet would cut a tube of flesh out making surgical repairs more difficult. I never bought into the idea but always thought that it would be neat to have a few rounds for conversation sake.

That stuff was made by PMC, and called ultramag or something like that. A guy that I bought some 9mm black talons from had part of a box of it, but he wouldn't sell it. I believe that ammo was eventually classified as armor piercing and banned. Wicked looking stuff indeed!
 
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