Black Powder Shotgun loads

[flashpan]

Do you have to lube (mica or other) those shotcups to get them past the chokes?

I don't lube the plastic wads in my guns.

 

[drstrangelove]

I don't lube the plastic wads in my guns.

I will, just to keep fouling soft. If fouling allowed to get hard during protracted shooting ie duck hunting, it requires a river water soaked patch to clean followed by a couple dry off patches. That's a lot of time wasted when birds are coming in.

 

[drstrangelove]

Has anybody explored rolling nitrated paper shotshell cartridges? I was thinking rolling nitrated coffee filter paper around a tapered .690 dowel mandrel, gluesticking the base, powder, two lubed felts for overpowder, shot, one felt overshot then twisting the top for shot retention. The nitrated paper should fully combust, not leaving burning material in the grass. A good tamp down should keep everything tight considering it has to squeeze past chokes.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Has anybody explored rolling nitrated paper shotshell cartridges? I was thinking rolling nitrated coffee filter paper around a tapered .690 dowel mandrel, gluesticking the base, powder, two lubed felts for overpowder, shot, one felt overshot then twisting the top for shot retention. The nitrated paper should fully combust, not leaving burning material in the grass. A good tamp down should keep everything tight considering it has to squeeze past chokes.

Except the glue stick! Use silk thread, twist the end shut and tie it, then shove it back up inside the tube and pour your powder charge! At the top, just twist it shut and tie it off, should work fine!

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Has anybody explored rolling nitrated paper shotshell cartridges? I was thinking rolling nitrated coffee filter paper around a tapered .690 dowel mandrel, gluesticking the base, powder, two lubed felts for overpowder, shot, one felt overshot then twisting the top for shot retention. The nitrated paper should fully combust, not leaving burning material in the grass. A good tamp down should keep everything tight considering it has to squeeze past chokes.

So, all of those components must be smaller than the inner diameter of your cartridge to fit without tearing, right? A concern that I would have is that the overshot card might then be too small to effectively do its job.

I wonder if you loaded your cartridge, tied off as Ura-Ki mentioned, with powder, overpowder wads, shot and twisted off; then followed by a soaked felt wad for the Skychief effect and to provide a good overshot function might work better.

 

[drstrangelove]

Well I made a few cartidges with expanding corn-foam packing peanuts (entirely combustible without residue) for wadding/shot separation. The lubed felts will not go past the chokes unbent. Will see how they work. Note the bore butter on the top end of the cartridges. Planning one overshot card on top for firm tampdown and retention. Shorter ones are precompressed wadding.
I won't light one off if things don't feel right and tight.

 

[drstrangelove]

If I wanted to I could tear the powder base, drop the powder, put in a feltlube wad finger depth, load rest of cartridge, and a thin card on top and shove the whole magilla down; that would guarantee i don't have an airgap or mixed powder and shot. In fact I like that idea better and will get better backpressure/velocity this way and it's still way faster than pouring and measuring each powder and shot charge. Nitrated paper still burns away and the lubed felt does not burn. Don't want to start a fire in fall grass.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Dude, I like how you think outside the box.

 

[drstrangelove]

Why thank you!

 

[drstrangelove]

Patterning and performance update. The paper cartridge patterns extremely well showing full choke 12-18" pattern at 25 yard in the left mod barrel... anything hit at this range would become hamburger. Best reserved for longer shots. The right IC barrel patterned surprisingly more open, still downed bird, but better for immediately flushed birds. The right barrel might make a good skychief option. More testing required.
On a crappy note, the nitrated paper did not immolate, nor did the corn peanut, but they were not on fire when found, either. The beeswax and olive oil felt wad did a great job sealing off combustion. The paper cartridge did save time, that's for sure.

 

[randys]

Sorry for dig up of an old post, but hunting season is coming, the topic is newly fresh. 'sides, I was a huntin' when it first ran and missed it.

I duck hunt central Washington public land most of December & January. Must use no-tox shot. Upland is also no-tox.

I had "lightweight" 12ga Pedersoli, as per OP. I used MEC steel shot wads, steel shot, and GOEX or Pyrodex. Goal: for ducks & geese, find best-killing-load and range limitations. Much testing, a few experimental hunts. Did not like "aluminum beer can" feel of barrels at all load levels, and pencil-thin stock wrist. Swapped for Cabelas-version Pedersoli 10ga.

Ick. Shiny barrels, choke tubes, big chip out of one rock-hard hammer sear, poor balance, heavy. However, barrels were as thick as you can get on Pedersoli.

- Wads. ISAM or MEC, (current Balistic Products 10ga in hand to be tested.) Weeks before hunt, must slightly collapse gas seal skirt of each wad with side of pliars to diameter that just fits muzzle. Impossible to seat without "crimp", cold weather or not.
Filling seated wad to top of fingers only gets at best 1 1/4 oz (I weighed) of #2 or #4 shot. Don't want steel shot scouring bore, chromed or not. (#1 shot seems to work best on ducks, and close geese.)

- Lube. CVA Grease Patch, 'cuz tube is convenient and stays flexible sub-freezing. (White lithium grease.) Don't attempt to seat steel shot wad, 10 or 12 ga, without copious lube of some sort. Wonder lube works, container sucks.

- Powder:
GOEX, two and only two shots per barrel with steel shot wads. Hard to field-clean barrel with ice.
Pyrodex, 9 shots per barrel. If you need more than 18 shots to get your birds for the day, well, you figure it out.
Tripple 7, new to me, it's next.
Don't bother with more than 100 gr GOEX or Pyro equivalent behind ISAM/MEC, your barrels aren't long enough to burn that much. 90 probably best. No use blinding hunting partners early morning.

I put way-beyond-mfg's-suggested-max loads across my chronograph out at Renton F&G. I could not break 1,150 fps. Wide variation, average was 1,050fps. (Also tested mfg's suggested 1 1/4oz loads, 900 to 950 fps.)

Important: Do the math. My "Mighty Pedersoli 10 gauge" produces (at best) the same energy as my 2 3/4" 20 gauge 3/4oz steel shot 1,325fps Federal or Remington shells. I've killed a lot of ducks with 2 3/4" 20ga shotguns, most at 25 yards or less. Is the no-tox load in your shotgun suitable for large ducks, or better saved for quail? Just saying.

Sold the Cabelas, now have a REAL shotgun: Dixie-Pedersoli 10ga, browned barrels, ic & skeet fixed chokes, stout-not-thick stock, okay balance, European type sling swivels. Since the Dixie needed company, also will eventually test Pedersoli medium-weight 12ga, 20ga, and a Beretta/ASM O/U. Friend sold me his large stash of loose HeviShot, which might increase kill-effectiveness at the 1,050fps level; to be tested. Range rods to the blind, you never know!

Finally, water swatting crippled birds is necessary before they get to the reeds when your Labrador is a Grumman canoe. Your buddies get pissed when they turn to you with their emptied-through-the-muzzle autoloader, spilled shells at their feet, and ask forcefully, "STOP MY BIRD, HE'S ALMOST TO THE WEEDS!!", and all you can do is point to empty nipples. (YOUR birds are TU In The Decoys.) Take a second shotgun to the blind. Probably perfect duty for a lightweight Ped-12ga loaded with small bismuth shot.

Oh, and 209 primers are only restricted (percussion cap only) in Wash for muzzleloader-only hunts. There are no special ML waterfowl hunts. Your Pedersoli is just another shotgun in the blind.

Good hunting!