Black powder cartridge

[jordanka16]

Jordan; The -70 in the name stands for 70grs. of Black Powder. So, Andy's load of 60-65grs. is actually less than the Standard. I've used the 70gr. load and it worked fine.

My amazement was because he had enough room to need filler. I use a 65 grain load in mine usually, and have to compress quite a bit. I am using a 500gr bullet and a poly wad though, that is probably taking up the extra volume. 70 grains will overflow a starline case, to use that much I have to compress some, add more, and compress again.

Tac- I really need to get a drop tube.

 

[41mag]

What is the volume 45-70 Win vs 45-70 Govt??? One is tapered, one has step-down case, I've never loaded that one.

{ETA} Looking to find a case I know at least 2 different buddies load, with different chamber specs than the tapered 45-70 Winchester.

The odd one for me is rather shaped like these 460 Remmies with a long neck taking about 2/3 length of cartridge I'm familiar with.

 

[jordanka16]

What is the volume 45-70 Win vs 45-70 Govt??? One is tapered, one has step-down case, I've never loaded that one.

{ETA} Looking to find a case I know at least 2 different buddies load, with different chamber specs than the tapered 45-70 Winchester.

The odd one for me is rather shaped like these 460 Remmies with a long neck taking about 2/3 length of cartridge I'm familiar with.
View attachment 410565

I've never heard of 45-70 winchester being a different case, the 1886 Winchester was the famous big bore lever action and it was chambered for the standard straight govt case.

 

[KKG]

Sharps was well known for their Bottle Necked cartridges but I've never heard of a Winchester Case that is tapered.

 

[41mag]

 

[jj500]

In my 45-90 I load 82 grains of 2F Goex,with a .60 over powder wad compressed to .57 with a 535 grain Postell bullet seated to the top of the first groove. The key to near max loads is a drop tube,then vibrate them with a tumbler and then compression.

 

[arakboss]

Anyone else here load and shoot black powder in cartridge rifles? I bought a trapdoor about a year ago and have been enjoying it immensely, and looking for others to add to my collection.

If you do, what are some of your favorite techniques? what do you do different than for smokeless?

I have read that an air gap between powder and projectile is safe when using BP in cartridge? Can anybody confirm this is true?

 

[tac]

I have read that an air gap between powder and projectile is safe when using BP in cartridge? Can anybody confirm this is true?

You were lied to.

NO air gap, please, I use a natural filler like couscous or a cotton ball - NOT artificial material of any kind. Making up a load that needs to be compressed slightly is a good idea - I CAN get 65gr of 2Fg into a modern 45-70 case, but only by squashing the bullet down a out 1/4" or so. This is good.

 

[jordanka16]

You were lied to.

NO air gap, please, I use a natural filler like couscous or a cotton ball - NOT artificial material of any kind. Making up a load that needs to be compressed slightly is a good idea - I CAN get 65gr of 2Fg into a modern 45-70 case, but only by squashing the bullet down a out 1/4" or so. This is good.

Indeed, not only is an air gap potentially dangerous, it's not very effective either. BP does much better with a full case and even with a compressed load.

 

[arakboss]

You were lied to.

NO air gap, please, I use a natural filler like couscous or a cotton ball - NOT artificial material of any kind. Making up a load that needs to be compressed slightly is a good idea - I CAN get 65gr of 2Fg into a modern 45-70 case, but only by squashing the bullet down a out 1/4" or so. This is good.

What other methods could be used to lower velocities in a given cartridge? Heavier bullet, seating bullet deeper, etc?

 

[OregonForest]

You were lied to.

NO air gap, please, I use a natural filler like couscous or a cotton ball - NOT artificial material of any kind. Making up a load that needs to be compressed slightly is a good idea - I CAN get 65gr of 2Fg into a modern 45-70 case, but only by squashing the bullet down a out 1/4" or so. This is good.

are people really putting couscous in their rounds?

awesome

 

[jordanka16]

What other methods could be used to lower velocities in a given cartridge? Heavier bullet, seating bullet deeper, etc?

Like tac said if you have a straight wall case you can use an inert filler to take up space. Cream of wheat or cornmeal are easy to find and work well.

Don't do that in a bottleneck case however, no filler should be used in that case.

 

[arakboss]

Like tac said if you have a straight wall case you can use an inert filler to take up space. Cream of wheat or cornmeal are easy to find and work well.

Don't do that in a bottleneck case however, no filler should be used in that case.

It's for 300 blk and maybe 7.62x39 so filler might not be a good idea.

 

[jordanka16]

It's for 300 blk and maybe 7.62x39 so filler might not be a good idea.

Are you trying to load subs with black powder? Hopefully your can comes apart, lol.

Really the only way to alter velocity with black is more or less powder, it's very linear and doesn't behave like smokeless. If you can use a longer bullet and seat it deeply that would probably be your best bet.

 

[arakboss]

Are you trying to load subs with black powder? Hopefully your can comes apart, lol.

Really the only way to alter velocity with black is more or less powder, it's very linear and doesn't behave like smokeless. If you can use a longer bullet and seat it deeply that would probably be your best bet.

I do want to load subs but no can will be involved. It's just for fun.

Edit: I have some 240gr coated cast bullets that are really long. I should be able to seat them fairly deep in the case.

 

[tac]

IF you are determined to use BP in a modern cartridge, then there are a few things that are mandatory.

1. Less powder = less velocity, that's true.

2. ANY space MUST be taken up with an inert filler. I reload LOW loads of .45-70 Govt. with couscous - cream of wheat, or even semolina [not cooked, right?], will do the same.

3. LEAD BULLETS ONLY!!!!

Watch Hickock45 shooting BP loads through a Glock of some kind - and learns the hard way just how much of a chore it is to clean up afterwards. Remember that a BP-era firearm had NO moving parts attendant to the barrel - here I'm excluding the Gatling gun, of course. All there was was a choob with a plug at one end and a hole at the other - cleanup was pretty easy and fast. Your Blackout something or other has a gazillion components flapping around in there, all of which will need a really thorough cleanup post shooting.

Did I mention that a Youtube movie of your shooting will be vital to any continuing credibility on this forum?

Personally, I doubt that your bullet will make much more than ca.600 fps, due mainly to the feeble amount of powder you can cram into that titchy little case.

Time to prove me wrong.

 

[arakboss]

IF you are determined to use BP in a modern cartridge, then there are a few things that are mandatory.

1. Less powder = less velocity, that's true.

2. ANY space MUST be taken up with an inert filler. I reload LOW loads of .45-70 Govt. with couscous - cream of wheat, or even semolina [not cooked, right?], will do the same.

3. LEAD BULLETS ONLY!!!!

Watch Hickock45 shooting BP loads through a Glock of some kind - and learns the hard way just how much of a chore it is to clean up afterwards. Remember that a BP-era firearm had NO moving parts attendant to the barrel - here I'm excluding the Gatling gun, of course. All there was was a choob with a plug at one end and a hole at the other - cleanup was pretty easy and fast. Your Blackout something or other has a gazillion components flapping around in there, all of which will need a really thorough cleanup post shooting.

Did I mention that a Youtube movie of your shooting will be vital to any continuing credibility on this forum?

Personally, I doubt that your bullet will make much more than ca.600 fps, due mainly to the feeble amount of powder you can cram into that titchy little case.

Time to prove me wrong.

Full case it is.


I have no intention of becoming a youtube sensation but there are plenty of of youtubers who have posted modern day semi autos being run with cartridges loaded with BP. In my case I will be blocking the gas system and operating in single shot mode, using a nitrided barrel, copious amounts of bore butter and powder coated projectiles. Hopefully that will reduce clean up efforts to a minimum.

This is more my speed:

 

[tac]

Full case it is.


I have no intention of becoming a youtube sensation but there are plenty of of youtubers who have posted modern day semi autos being run with cartridges loaded with BP. In my case I will be blocking the gas system and operating in single shot mode, using a nitrided barrel, copius amounts of bore butter and powder coated projectiles. Hopefully that will reduce clean up efforts to a minimum.

Hah. Your best trick is to use Alox, produced by Lee. I had a few .457 bullets from a pal that were cast without grooves - made to suit his .450 black Powder Express double rifle. Glooping them up with Alox seemed to be the way to go for shooting them in my Winchester High Wall and very well they went, too. I was sorry to shoot the last of them a few weeks back - John has escaped to France and now lives in Burgundy.

 

[arakboss]

Hah. Your best trick is to use Alox, produced by Lee. I had a few .457 bullets from a pal that were cast without grooves - made to suit his .450 black Powder Express double rifle. Glooping them up with Alox seemed to be the way to go for shooting them in my Winchester High Wall and very well they went, too. I was sorry to shoot the last of them a few weeks back - John has escaped to France and now lives in Burgundy.

I used ALOX for the 50cal minnies I ran through my 50 Beowulf upper and it worked fine. I recently knocked a container of ALOX off my bench and it cracked open spilling half the contents on my floor. I thought I got it all wiped up but my garage area stunk for two days.

 

[arakboss]

I used ALOX for the 50cal minnies I ran through my 50 Beowulf upper and it worked fine. I recently knocked a container of ALOX off my bench and it cracked open spilling half the contents on my floor. I thought I got it all wiped up but my garage area stunk for two days.

These are doubled coated with ALOX.