Black powder cartridge

[jordanka16]

Anyone else here load and shoot black powder in cartridge rifles? I bought a trapdoor about a year ago and have been enjoying it immensely, and looking for others to add to my collection.

If you do, what are some of your favorite techniques? what do you do different than for smokeless?

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[Mark W.]

There is a group of guys at Four Corners Rod and Gun Club in Salem that have Monthly contests with Blackpowder cartridge. You might try the clubs web site to see if you can find out info.

 

[jordanka16]

There is a group of guys at Four Corners Rod and Gun Club in Salem that have Monthly contests with Blackpowder cartridge. You might try the clubs web site to see if you can find out info.

Would I have to be a member there to shoot with them? There is no such group at my range, and I have never seen anyone shooting BPCR.

This is my next project. Working up some loads for use next year on deer or elk.

 

[Argonaut]

My Cousin is a world class classic black powder silhouette shooter in northern Idaho. There are very active groups all over the country. I shoot FFG in my Thompson Center rifles but in metallic black powder shooting I would look at the Trail Boss smokeless powder loads. It is a powder that burns clean, is much less corrosive and fills the case like traditional black powder. I am loading it in my 44 Magnum cases to replicate 44 special loadings. There load tables show many metallic black powder loads for your application. The reason that most 45/70 factory loads are so anemic is because they are afraid someone might throw a hotter load into a trapdoor and blow it up. The hot stuff like lever revolution are a fairly recent newcomer to the market designed for modern arms. Other than that, we have been shooting smokeless powder 45/70 ammo for well over 100 years. I have seen Pyrodox loads for metallic cartridges as well but I can't stand the smell and Trail Boss works great. The web site shows loads specifically for the trap door, 14-16.5 grains for lighter bullets.

 

[jordanka16]

My Cousin is a world class classic black powder silhouette shooter in northern Idaho. There are very active groups all over the country. I shoot FFG in my Thompson Center rifles but in metallic black powder shooting I would look at the Trail Boss smokeless powder loads. It is a powder that burns clean, is much less corrosive and fills the case like traditional black powder. I am loading it in my 44 Magnum cases to replicate 44 special loadings. There load tables show many metallic black powder loads for your application. The reason that most 45/70 factory loads are so anemic is because they are afraid someone might throw a hotter load into a trapdoor and blow it up. The hot stuff like lever revolution are a fairly recent newcomer to the market designed for modern arms. Other than that, we have been shooting smokeless powder 45/70 ammo for well over 100 years. I have seen Pyrodox loads for metallic cartridges as well but I can't stand the smell and Trail Boss works great.

Part of the fun for me is using the actual black. I have some trail boss, I use it for reduced loads in centerfire rifles, and I might use it someday, but for now I will stick to playing with the real stuff.

 

[Argonaut]

Part of the fun for me is using the actual black. I have some trail boss, I use it for reduced loads in centerfire rifles, and I might use it someday, but for now I will stick to playing with the real stuff.

I understand, be careful black powder is a true explosive and can be "volatile" to work with. There are a whole set of rules specifically for handling it with a press and machinery.

 

[jordanka16]

I understand, be careful black powder is a true explosive and can be "volatile" to work with. There are a whole set of rules specifically for handling it with a press and machinery.

I think people think it's more sensitive than it is, I've seen several tests hitting it with high voltage discharges, and nothing happens. And I've never heard of anyone setting any off accidentally while reloading, unless you're smoking around it or something. I load it single stage but I use a lee powder measure, the one with the brass body and plastic hopper.

 

[Argonaut]

I think people think it's more sensitive than it is, I've seen several tests hitting it with high voltage discharges, and nothing happens. And I've never heard of anyone setting any off accidentally while reloading, unless you're smoking around it or something. I load it single stage but I use a lee powder measure, the one with the brass body and plastic hopper.

We used to buy pound tins.......just to blow up with a 22 rifle from 100 yards. It worked every time......we never could get smokeless powder to ignite.

 

[jordanka16]

We used to buy pound tins.......just to blow up with a 22 rifle from 100 yards. It worked every time......we never could get smokeless powder to ignite.

I have smashed it with a hammer before and failed to set it off, I would wonder if the bullet combined with the metal tins did something? It would be interesting to try with a newer plastic bottle, but I don't feel like using up any of mine like that

 

[jordanka16]

No one here shooting cartridges with black?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

For .45-70 loads I use:
60-65 grains of 2F...
Corn meal as a filler ...
And a .405 soft lead bullet...
Deer tallow as a lube...
Works real well in my Trapdoor.
Andy

 

[jordanka16]

For .45-70 loads I use:
60-65 grains of 2F...
Corn meal as a filler ...
And a .405 soft lead bullet...
Deer tallow as a lube...
Works real well in my Trapdoor.
Andy

I'm surprised you have room left in the case for a filler, I usually have to compress my loads down some.

have you ever done anything with paper patching?

 

[KKG]

Jordan; The -70 in the name stands for 70grs. of Black Powder. So, Andy's load of 60-65grs. is actually less than the Standard. I've used the 70gr. load and it worked fine.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I have not used a paper patch...and some .45-70 cases are thicker than the originals..so you can't get a full 70 grains...
Andy

 

[41mag]

I've shot lots of SASS matches with 45 1873 Colts, carbine & BP shotgun both 16 & 12 gauge.
Also did a season with 45-70 Browning Traditional Hunter with the Holy Black out to 200 yrds.
Still have considerable inventory of BP 45LC I loaded up, never used....yet....someday will get another smokepole & try some 1000 yd dinner plates.

 

[jj500]

Try some of the BPCR forums,lots of info and it is for real black powder only.Here is one for you. Black Powder Cartridge

 

[tac]

How do you guys get 70gr of anything into your .45-70 cases? I use a three-foot drop tube and I can't do it....

tac

 

[41mag]

IIRC the closest I got with FFFg was 67g by weight. Pretty solid ka....whump!!!!

.50 soft ball into a steel plate @ 50 yards, penetrated.
In fact in those days I was pretty scientific, using a series of powder volume with same everything else....the target load was at 45g by weight, left a mark; 55 slight indentation; 60 more definite divot. Still have the old target laying about the estate, maybe can dig it out for photos!

 

[KKG]

I don't know about anyone else but I guess somebody forgot to tell me that you could NOT get 70grs. into a .45-70 Case. I will admit I was using the much older Balloon Head cases and I'm pretty sure that's how I did it. I had found a couple of boxes at the Gunshow that were brand new. And I was Shooting them in a modern Ruger #3 Carbine and it wasn't a lot of fun. I didn't like the idea of having a Clean, Clean and then Clean again. I Rifle is still around but I only shoot Smokeless Powder now days.

 

[41mag]

Update on .50 on plate comments, note: these were from front stuffer NO cartridge was involved, straight .50 round ball/patch/FFFg as I was out of FFg at the time: several decades ago, and the loads were measured from a marks on (something I had), there was no '67g by volume in THIS photo review:



I have forgotten what the metal was, but it stood up to close 45 acp/357/44 mag without indentation. The smaller holes in the upper end are from an IMHSA 308 hand gun I was building at the time. I retired the target for obvious safety concerns but kept it around as being easier than paper to locate