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Bill Gives Attorney General Power To Designate Gun Owners, Tax Protesters As Terroris

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by PDXGuy, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. PDXGuy

    PDXGuy Portland Member

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  2. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    It's atrocious, and expected.
     
  3. PDXGuy

    PDXGuy Portland Member

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    Be ready to handover your firearms or face being prosecuted. In light of the Patriot Act's powers to forcibly rendition people out of the country and deny them habeas corpus rights to a trial, this bill allows the Attorney General to declare Americans (especially ones with guns) who protest the government as terrorists and lock them away with no rights and no trial. If you have guns and have a CHL, get ready to have someone knocking at your door.
     
  4. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Really? What are you basing that little bit of hyperbole upon? The one tiny paragraph entered into consideration that states people associated with hate "groups" cannot be enlisted in military service? It does not mention anything about labeling "individuals" as anything. Please elaborate on your reasoning.
     
  5. PDXGuy

    PDXGuy Portland Member

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    Amendments to the 2010 National Defense Authorization Act, which has already been passed by the House, would empower the Attorney General Eric Holder to define gun owners, anti-abortion activists and tax protesters as domestic terrorists in light of recent federal reports that classify millions of Americans as “extremists”.

    In essence Attorney General Eric Holder — a Bill Clinton retread — will have the discretion to label Americans terrorists, using Patriot ACT's 1 &2. Have you read the patriot act? 13 of the 16 provisions from PA1 is now permanent.
     
  6. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Where in the bill does it say that?
     
  7. PDXGuy

    PDXGuy Portland Member

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    This bill and many others will give the govt the power to do what they want.

    The government itself is training its law enforcement and military arms that protesters and people who use their First Amendment rights are domestic terrorists. The facilities for round-ups of “extremists” who dare to exercise their First or Second Amendment rights are already being prepared, again with the help of Hastings, who sponsored (HR 645) – the National Emergency Centers Establishment Act. The Patriot Act gives the govt the power to declare anyone/group a terrorist. Then they can arrest/detain you indefinitely...all in the guise of national security.
     
  8. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Once again...where does it say that? I am guessing you must be very familiar with it and not just running around in hysterics over something you heard. Please give some details.
     
  9. PDXGuy

    PDXGuy Portland Member

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    I'm busy at work now...sorry can't research more to help you out. But you don't have to believe that this bill or any others will take away more of your rights. Everything is ok in this country...we still have our freedoms. Please disregard this silly bill and the hundreds of others...But, really when I get the time...I can add more, in the meantime prepare
     
  10. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    You are not to busy to go around all willy-nilly in a tither. I would think you would get your information straight before doing that...not after.
     
  11. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Here's the actual bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-2647

    The section described in the "prisonplanet.com" description linked by the OP is section 524. When you've read the actual statute, chime in.

    BTW, why would you trust a description of legislation from a website called "prisonplanet.com" without actually reading the legislation? Are you that easily manipulated? Not surprisingly, the discription of the bill in the "article" isn't even close.

    FWIW: The bill itself simply bans members of hate groups (NOT defined as normal gun owners) from serving in the armed services. But don't take my word for it. Read the freakin' bill before commenting on it. Sheesh.

    "I read it on the internet, so I believe it" is a very bad personal philosophy.
     
  12. Kennedy

    Kennedy Beaverton Member

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    Wow.
     
  13. s12tactical

    s12tactical portland metro Member

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    :paranoid: what's wrong with believing everything on the internet? If we can't believe in the internet, what can we believe in? Fox news? But seriously, People need to be informed of what our government is up to. Our government is acting in a rogue fashion, completely outside the bounds of its constitutional authority. I think the OP is trying to alert us of the potential future in store for us.
     
  14. cameronhu

    cameronhu Ridgefield, Wa Member

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    If we bash each other and the current administration in this forum, does that make us a hate group? Or just an angry group? I'd hate to miss out on my chance to join the coast guard. Damn- I meant to type "disappointed to miss out..." :laugh:
     
  15. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    I'm all for raising the alarm bells. But people shouldn't set them off without good information.
     
  16. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    I am worried that this government put this in publication:

    "Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first
    African American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new
    members, mobilize existing supporters, and broaden their scope and appeal
    through propaganda, but they have not yet turned to attack planning."

    "Threats from white supremacist and violent antigovernment groups
    during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry
    out violent acts. Nevertheless, the consequences of a prolonged economic
    downturn—including real estate foreclosures, unemployment, and an inability
    to obtain credit—could create a fertile recruiting environment for rightwing
    extremists and even result in confrontations between such groups and
    government authorities similar to those in the past."

    "The current economic and political climate has some similarities to the
    1990s when rightwing extremism experienced a resurgence fueled largely by an economic recession, criticism about the outsourcing of jobs, and the perceived threat to U.S. power and sovereignty by other foreign powers."

    "The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of
    military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks."

    "Proposed imposition of firearms restrictions and weapons bans likely would attract new members into the ranks of rightwing extremist groups, as well as potentially spur some of them to begin planning and training for violence against the government. The high volume of purchases and stockpiling of weapons and ammunition by rightwing extremists in anticipation of restrictions and bans in some parts of the country continue to be a primary
    concern to law enforcement."

    "Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are
    attractive to rightwing extremists. DHS/I&A is concerned that rightwing
    extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to
    boost their violent capabilities."


    Now these statements made by this government is a little off. If this does not concern anyone something is wrong. I fit the whole list acording to HS. Oh well at least I know the truth.
     
  17. PDXGS

    PDXGS Aloha... yes, Aloha, Oregon Member

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    Remind me again of which administration enacted the Patriot Act?
    Or is it too painful to reflect on the basic rights we lost then as opposed to some trivial ones we may lose in the future...?
     
  18. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    LOL!:laugh: Genius! Pure genius! Divide and conquer. This reaction is a textbook example of how it works. Somehow we are divided into two imaginary groups of people in this nation, although we are much closer than we are led to believe. Most of us get so caught up in who's party is totally right, that we don't see that neither is! The longer we fight amongst ourselves instead of addressing the real issues facing us, the worse things are going to get.

    In case you didn't figure it out, I do not let a party define me. I am not a Republican or a Democrat. I judge each and every issue and candidate for what they are instead of who they are associated with. If my candidate doesn't perform well, I have no problems with kicking him out and putting someone else in that represents up better. It's time to find common ground and work together. Remember the saying "United we stand, divided we fall". We are witnessing it right now.

    By the way, no rights are trivial.
     
  19. PDXGS

    PDXGS Aloha... yes, Aloha, Oregon Member

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    I guess I'm growing tired of folks claiming that the sky is falling with respect to individual rights under the current administration when the last administration gutted them so utterly deeply that you and I will likely never get them back. I'm on your side when it comes to a loathing of political parties or drawing a clear line of distiction between one administration to another. You are correct in that none of our rights are trivial but I'm not goin to support the whining and shock and horror as more are threatened when the same folks doing the whining likely, and enthusiastically, supported the last batch of ba$tards that were in power- is like closing the barn door after the cows have gone.
     
  20. cameronhu

    cameronhu Ridgefield, Wa Member

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    x2

    This was a question / answer with Conservative Bookstore and Dave Kopel, which pretty much sums up my point of view on the area of rights:

    ----------

    CB: The NRA and the ACLU in many ways represent opposite ends of the political spectrum. How do square your membership in these two organizations?

    DAVE KOPEL: When the NRA and the ACLU stray from their Bill of Rights foundations, they _are_ at opposite ends of the spectrum. The ACLU pushes leftist cultural causes, while the NRA runs ads bashing people for voting against the flag-burning amendment. But when the NRA and the ACLU are true to their better selves, the two groups have exactly the same political stance: in defense of our magnificent Constitution. The Founding Fathers saw the Bill of Rights as a single splendid tapestry, with each right reinforcing and protecting the rest. For example, the Tenth Amendment guarantee of state autonomy reduces the ability of the federal government to conscript local law enforcement into enforcing federal laws which violate the Second and Fourth Amendments--like the Brady Act.

    The idea that there are some constitutional rights for liberals (speech, privacy, no religious establishment) and others for conservatives (property, guns, state autonomy) is a late 20th-century cultural conceit. It's one of the gravest mutual errors of late 20th century liberals _and_ conservatives.

    ------------

    I'm going to use that last bit in bold as my signature.