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Big Brother and wood stoves

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by A.I.P., Nov 17, 2011.

  1. A.I.P.

    A.I.P. UpperUS Active Member

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    EPA targets families that generate heat off the grid using traditional wood-burning s

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    EPA targets families that generate heat off the grid using traditional wood-burning stoves

    Thursday, November 17, 2011 by: Jonathan Benson, staff writer



    (NaturalNews) Traditional wood-burning stoves are still one of the most cost-efficient, sustainable, and renewable sources of energy production that families can use to heat their homes. But the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is not a huge fan of them, as was evidenced by its recent decision to push those who use traditional models to convert to EPA-approved -- and oftentimes much more expensive -- alternative models.


    Throughout history, civilizations have relied on the burning of wood to cook food, warm water, and heat places of dwelling. After all, trees are an abundant and renewable source of wood, which means that the costs associated with obtaining energy and heat from burning wood are minimal. This, of course, is why many cash-strapped folks today are turning to wood-burning stoves rather than their local utilities.


    But the EPA is now expressing concern about the 80 percent-or-so of wood stove users that still rely on non-EPA approved models. Most of the wood stoves manufactured before 1990 do not contain the EPA's certification stamp of approval which, in the eyes of the agency, means they are an unnecessary contributor of excess environmental pollution.


    This is debatable, of course, as EPA-approved models can still emit excess smoke just like the others, and may not necessarily provide any pollution-reducing benefits at all. Because of their altered designs, many of the new EPA-approved models do not work as well as the older models, either, especially when used in severely-cold weather (After 20 Years U.S. EPA Revisits the Wood Stove Program | Energy Bulletin).



    Most wood-burning stove companies in the US actually went out of business shortly after the EPA established its original certification requirements for wood stoves back in the 1990s. Many of the companies simply could not develop a complying product that actually worked. Today, the EPA is once again revisiting these New Source Performance Standards (NSPS) guidelines in order to push even more people away from the old stoves.


    At the same time, EPA spokeswoman Alison Davis recently tried to whitewash the agency's position against wood stoves by claiming that the EPA is "not in the business of telling people how to heat their homes." No, it is actually in the business of restricting the types of wood stoves manufacturers are allowed to produce and sell, which ultimately does tell people how to heat their homes by robbing them of their freedom of choice.



    Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034179_EP...#ixzz1dxu3kAKX
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  2. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I wish people would keep their noses out of our businesses.

    Punks I tell ya. Nosy punks.
     
  3. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    How is this news? The rules for clean burning stoves have been in place for 20 years now. And I have news for you. Best be checking with your home owners insurance before you excersize your "rights" unless a stove meets the standards in place and has an inspection (normally the local firedept) your home owners insurance can deny any claim resulting from ANY fire damage even if the stove was not involved.

    We have heated with either wood stoves (from 1984 to 1992 or 3) and now a pellet stove and right before we bought our pellet stove all the manufacturers started meeting the new regs.

    If your stove is already 20+ years old that is one worn out stove.
     
  4. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    The insurance company can "deny" all they like. In my experience, in order to get fair treatment you have to hire a lawyer and sue them anyway. My lawyer has twice extracted at least 10 times my original offer to settle claims without even filing suit. And BTW, I'll continue to use the stove my great uncle built 30 years ago. It's 1/4" steel plate and solid as a rock. So what if it emits woodsmoke? That's the point, isn't it?
     
  5. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    How exactly do you wear out a stove? Its a metal box.

    The Fisher I have is still going strong and it is well over 20 years old. I have a couple bricks inside that need replaced but that is no big deal. This is one of the best stoves I have ever used and before me it was used to heat a small commercial building. It is far better then any other stove I have used. This is my only heat. Nice thing is I can come home after 2 days even when it is cold and in under an hour have the whole house at 80*.

    My parents got a new EPA one in '96 when they got their new house. It SUCKS but is as good as any of the other current ones. The thing will hardly draft. Puts out little heat, but will keep a house warm once it is already warm. Wont hold enough wood to burn well overnight.

    When my brother bought my grandparents house it came with the stove they installed in the early '80's when they moved here. Guess what, still going strong with no problems.........
     
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Sorry I bothered
     
  7. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Mark I was being serious. Is there something I dont know? How do you wear one out? I was just sharing my stove experiences.
     
  8. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    i see stoves from the 1930's or 1940's still running strong. Them folks can't buy a new stove cause the fools in the EPA say so.
     
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I've seen a number of stoves that have burned out. My own Solar Key which was very heavily built and had about 20 years on it burned throught the top baffle and ended up exposing the top outer layer of the stove to full temp.
     
  10. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Wood ash is corrosive. It's what grandma made lye soap out of. A steel or iron stove will corrode over time. Also, cycling from cold to high heat many times over a long period of time causes metal fatigue, which will produce cracks and erosion. But with a little care a good stove will last a very long time.
     
  11. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    I can see how there should be restrictions on this in urban settings, but when you're talking about a house that's in a section of rural area where power is iffy during the winter and can be easily disrupted by one wind-fallen branch...GTFO, EPA.
     
  12. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    They can't? What
    are you referring to and what is it 'they' say about it? New wood stoves are as available as new cars.
     
  13. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    I think it's the restrictions in place about installing a new stove in a house. Permitting concerns and such.
     
  14. lonegunman

    lonegunman Eastern Washington Active Member

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    Wood stoves bother them for one simple reason. They(the socialists) need to control EVERY aspect of daily life to insure your compliance and enslavement. If you use something they can restrict access to, gas, oil, electrical power, they can regulate your home.

    Remember "death panels" and how they ridiculed people for complaining about them? Well they are called "treatment panels" and they are to be filled with morons that go thry a moron training program that starts with GED's and moves to some form of community college trainng class. The way to insure you never get live saving cancer drugs is to vote republican, drive a truck or be over the age of 55 and white.

    There is a quiet movement afoot to install a water meter on your private water well. Why? because it is the "people's water" and you have to right to enjoy it for the cost of a well, casing, pump and plumbing. Ditto for "septic tank permits" in lieu of sewer bills.
     
  15. pdxjohann

    pdxjohann Portland near Tigard Member

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    whoa
     
  16. coastal steelheader

    coastal steelheader Aberdeen Well-Known Member

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    Thank God for the Eastern Washington. Try repeating any part of what you wrote on the socialist West side and you'd be thrown in front of a panel for marginalizing someone or accused of one "ism" or another.
     
  17. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    Got any links to this? I fall into this category.
     
  18. jim97701

    jim97701 Bend Well-Known Member

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    What is it that makes you think that they dont control access to your firewood?. I have to buy a wood cutting permit from the US Forest service to be allowed to gather fire wood in the few areas that they allow cutting in. I have driven through thousands of acres of downed lodgepole and beetle kill that is posted "no wood cutting" to reach the open areas that have been cut in for several years. The trees are small and widely spread out so that it often requires a lot of moving around and hunting to cut a decent cord of wood. They also tell you how much wood you can cut every season and if you make any errors in the tagging of your load you are subject to a hefty fine. If they wanted to further limit your access or control your abilities to get firewood trust me they can play god of the forest just as they do everything else. I hate it when I hear of someone that is struggling in todays economy and can barely afford food let alone a cord permit is busted for cutting a pick up load of fire wood to try and keep his family warm.
     
  19. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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  20. lonegunman

    lonegunman Eastern Washington Active Member

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    It comes up regularly in seminars and as a topic at forums. I work for a water system and it was pondered in a way to "raise revenue" by a guy from the state. Next time they send something in writing I will post it here.

    I too, have a well and am not a fan of this idea.