Better SHTF gun AR vs. AK

[Silver Fox]

Haha! I'm lovin the new logo SF, and the "fresh" new lingo

Yea... your little wet kitty cat inspired me. I was stuck at a dealership for about 5 hours this morning after only having about 45 mins of sleep lastnight. Good grief! Been since about 2:00 this afternoon. Had some time to figure out how the avatars work and how to resize photos online and quantum physics in a parallel universe where we are enslaved by Swedish swim suit models, spraying tanning oil and massaging there sore muscles all the while sipping cold PBR. Aaaarrrrgh the humanity of it all!

Fresh lingo..... shhhhhhheeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiite talking like a clown is fresh? I am full of them. Get me a couple of beers and I go political-standup-comedy on your aaaaaaaaaasssssssprin.

Off to find some food.

SF-

Sbryson- when you say "mactown" are you referring to McMinnville? I get down that way ever so often but more west and less sophisticated.

 

[bshnt2015]

How about an American made Galil in 308 caliber?

http://elitefirearms.net/galil.html

They've got decent reviews from all the trade magazines. SAR, etc.

 

[Unka-Boo]

How about an American made Galil in 308 caliber?

http://elitefirearms.net/galil.html

They've got decent reviews from all the trade magazines. SAR, etc.

Where do you see a .308?

 

[Stomper]

How about an American made Galil in 308 caliber?

http://elitefirearms.net/galil.html

They've got decent reviews from all the trade magazines. SAR, etc.

I have an IMI Galil in .308... it's AWWWWWEEEESSSOOOOOMMMMME!!!

 

[sbryson21]

Yea... your little wet kitty cat inspired me. I was stuck at a dealership for about 5 hours this morning after only having about 45 mins of sleep lastnight. Good grief! Been since about 2:00 this afternoon. Had some time to figure out how the avatars work and how to resize photos online and quantum physics in a parallel universe where we are enslaved by Swedish swim suit models, spraying tanning oil and massaging there sore muscles all the while sipping cold PBR. Aaaarrrrgh the humanity of it all!

Fresh lingo..... shhhhhhheeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiite talking like a clown is fresh? I am full of them. Get me a couple of beers and I go political-standup-comedy on your aaaaaaaaaasssssssprin.

Off to find some food.

SF-

Sbryson- when you say "mactown" are you referring to McMinnville? I get down that way ever so often but more west and less sophisticated.

Well, first of all my avatar is not a "wet kitty". It's a ferocious porcupine feared by men and beast all across the world. A legendary animal in its own right. Secondly, what steps exactly did you take to enter this parallel universe because I am wanting a one way ticket straight there!! Third, yes, talking like a complete brainless moron is considered fresh now, I.E. rap singers (and I use the word singer extremly lightly). Finally, fourth, Mactown is some fresh slang for McMinnville, yes. And we are some high class individuals over here, thank you. Feel free to swing by and me meet at McMenamin's for some cold PBR and political stand up any time!

 

[rebelcop121]

I can't help but weigh in on this one...
I own 2 each of AK and AR 15, even though one of the 15's is a converted model into .40 S&W as a sub gun for SWAT entry in a shortened barrel M4 configuration. The other AR is a flattop with scope. I also have the FN/FAL, the Mini 14 and the ultimate back-up backpack rifle the SU 16B from KelTec. One AK is set up in the side-folding stock in composite while the other maintains the old wood stock. The SU 16 takes standard AR mags and folds up neatly to fit in a bug out backpack.
AK ammo is definately cheaper to come by these days. 5.56 is at a premium and the current war status keeps it slim pickings for them. Both are good accurate (mil spec) guns and reliable. The cleaning problems with the AR's have been pretty much taken care of since they got away from the tight tolerances of the early Vietnam era guns. Military ball ammo is cheaper and in that frame, the 7.62 had more smack down. 5.56 is a designed destabilzing round, which equates to the fact that you don't want to try shooting through anything at your intended opponent.
As others have already said, you need both, all the ammo you can stockpile and a darned good high capacity 12 gage shotgun and a handgun with a caliber that begins with a least a "4" (40, 45, etc). Keep them all with slings so that you can throw several over your shoulder if you have to move in a hurry.

"LIVE LARGE"...Mack Bolen

 

[Mr.510]

Everyone here probably already knows the pluses and minuses of the common platforms and calibers so I won't waste time regurgitating them. When I figured out that I'd better get a SHTF rifle this is what I decided was the best for *ME*, my lifestyle, my location(s), and my needs:



It's a converted Saiga .308 carbine with Ace folding stock. It fits in a backpack or a standard violin case. It also conceals nicely under a windbreaker or hoodie. The finish is paint over Parkerizing and the barrel is chrome-lined. I've got a rubber armored compact zoom scope on a quick-release mount that drops onto the side rail in about 5 seconds and holds zero perfectly every time. I easily shoot "minute of 1 gallon water jug" at 100 yards with it, standing using the irons. Works for me!

 

[speelyei]

I am setting up to offer 2"x4" battle clubs, complete with 20d nails, in both finished and kit forms.

A weapon, a pry bar, a battering ram, with no moving parts... this weapon is a perfect blend of old world utilitarianism and modern construction and materials. It can also be used as a dry fire starter source indefinitely.

Tactical models are available in digi-cam, flecktarn, OD, and coyote brown.
Civilian models come in unfinished, raw wood and linseed oil finish. There is also a deluxe/presentation model: straight-grained douglas fir w/o knots, rosewood caps on each end, checkered hand grips, and your company logo or name engraved at no additional cost.

Each kit includes a shoulder strap and extra nails, and an instruction list. Training courses are available at our in-house facility from qualified instructors with real world experience.

Custom lengths and dimensions are available. Prices start at $99+ s/h, no sales to Michigan or District of Columbia.

 

[aaron]

I'll take your compact model

 

[Stomper]

Everyone here probably already knows the pluses and minuses of the common platforms and calibers so I won't waste time regurgitating them. When I figured out that I'd better get a SHTF rifle this is what I decided was the best for *ME*, my lifestyle, my location(s), and my needs:



It's a converted Saiga .308 carbine with Ace folding stock. It fits in a backpack or a standard violin case. It also conceals nicely under a windbreaker or hoodie. The finish is paint over Parkerizing and the barrel is chrome-lined. I've got a rubber armored compact zoom scope on a quick-release mount that drops onto the side rail in about 5 seconds and holds zero perfectly every time. I easily shoot "minute of 1 gallon water jug" at 100 yards with it, standing using the irons. Works for me!

NICE!! What's the approx. length of that thing folded?

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Converted 22" Saiga .308 with a muzzle break or flash suppressor. A big enough round to take down quite a few things.. I wouldn't be shooting for distance, maybe 150-300 yards max. Good for general hunting as well as a firefight. The only con, no one makes decent magazines.. Yeah I guess Surefire makes a good civilian polymer magazine but how is that going to stand the test of time? I need some aluminum or steel magazines that can take some abuse.

Yes its a heavy weight bullet but thus far I haven't found a rifle that was more simple and rugged than the AKM in .308! and it can spit out 7.62x51 without any problems.

AR.. no way. I agree with a semi auto rifle chambered in 5.56 for the morbid purpose of ammo availability on fallen fighters and for found ammo while scavenging. And its a decent round.. Perhaps the Galil, Daewoo platforms?
(If you could find available spare parts).

Something along those lines with a gas piston and Something that accepts AR magazines.

But the civilian AR platform for a SHTF scenario wouldn't be my first choice. Perhaps the gas piston AR platform? But I don't have that kind of money.

As much as people like to say that the 7.62x39 is hard to come by in a SHTF, stores carry it, people stock up on it.. it isn't as rare as people claim it to be. Yes, yes.. it isn't an ideal round for distance and accuracy.. All I really need it for is one fight or defend and then I'll take what ever other caliber and rifle platform I find on those who have fallen.

Just my .02

 

[Mr.510]

NICE!! What's the approx. length of that thing folded?

It's 26-1/4" folded and 36" extended. I have it setup to fold left so it's fully functional when folded. If you fold 'em to the right you can't get to the safety and it's difficult to cycle the charging handle. Galil-style charging handles and extended safeties are popular and "fix" these two problems. It's nice to fold right as then the left side of the weapon can lay flat against your back on a sling. I'll probably mod the charging handle and safety and reverse the hinge one of these days. :smash:

 

[Stomper]

It's 26-1/4" folded and 36" extended. I have it setup to fold left so it's fully functional when folded. If you fold 'em to the right you can't get to the safety and it's difficult to cycle the charging handle. Galil-style charging handles and extended safeties are popular and "fix" these two problems. It's nice to fold right as then the left side of the weapon can lay flat against your back on a sling. I'll probably mod the charging handle and safety and reverse the hinge one of these days. :smash:

I hear ya on the right-side folder thing... that's why I really did my Galil for the very reasons you stated.

 

[cbdolphin]

They are both proven rifles that have fought many wars and after 10 pages, I'm sure the pros and cons of each have been talked about many times, so I really will not get into that.

I'd say choose whichever you know the best, shoot the best with and are the most comfortable with. For me, that happens to be the AK. I absolutely love AR's but my AK is the one I do the best with.

As to the ammo weight? Sure, it plays a factor but it's vastly overplayed by AR supporters. Reality is, you are going to either defend your homestead, which means ammo weight is a very small factor in determining what rifle to choose.

Or you are going to bug out to a secluded location. Majority of tactical vests carry 4-6AR or AK 30 round mags, so the amount of ammo you are transporting will be roughly the same. Add in another 4 in your bug out bag, your looking at about 11 magazines, (6 on vest, 4 in BOB and 1 in gun). The ammo weight will be minimal and hardly noticeable when you factor in you are most likely going to be wearing a vest with a back pack.

Both are two readily available calibers in the US and are extremely popular rounds. If you are accounting for some type of revolution, the .223/5.56 are going to be more common rounds.

If you feel there will be an invasion, your enemies will likely drop 7.62 x 39.

There are plenty of small variables to consider but in the grand scheme of things, each rifle will do the job and do it well.

 

[sbryson21]

I think it's funny how when you start a thread like this that says "what would you choose specifically between the AR or the AK and nothing else just between those two.." that it's then followed by "I'd take the John Wayne limited edition lever action rifle in 30-30". Not mad about it just really funny to see the drift. And then by the end of thread there's like 3 guys going at each others throats debating whether or not the M1 Garand can outshoot the M14 at 250 yards.

 

[Silver Fox]

And then by the end of thread there's like 3 guys going at each others throats debating whether or not the M1 Garand can outshoot the M14 at 250 yards.

How true!

So stir up the pot here are some options for the AK side:

Already posted but heck I just gotta do it, my Galil in .308:



I love them, but this is #8 of the first 100 imported so I am thinking I need to sell it and buy other needed items. Besides, mags are a bit spendy and very rare. Another option and a little more practical but still a little out of the price range, a Mitchell Arms Yugo M90 in .308:





The good thing about this rifle is with a little modification to the M14 mag and to the mag well you can adapt it to use M14 mags of which there are about 20 done up for this rifle to compliment the four factory mags (once again very rare and expansive)

I had a Saiga .308 done up by Tromix back in '06 but at the price and quality of aftermarket mags, I had to sell it. I still have its cousin I bought from Tromix at the same time, Tromix S-12 but Duracoated "multi-camouflage" pattern:



It has the Galil charging handle, Hand guard and pistol grip... so nice!

Here are my under folders from Poland and Yugoslavia:



I will have to update my photo's someday as my Chinese and Bulgarian AK's are not represented.

Oh and to all the AR lovers out there, the chest rig in the photo is a kit I use with my AR's for future 3 gun matches (fun shooting) my AK's are still my SHTF guns.

SF-

 

[Stomper]

+1 on the .308 Galil!!

 

[sbryson21]

How true!

So stir up the pot here are some options for the AK side:

Already posted but heck I just gotta do it, my Galil in .308:



I love them, but this is #8 of the first 100 imported so I am thinking I need to sell it and buy other needed items. Besides, mags are a bit spendy and very rare. Another option and a little more practical but still a little out of the price range, a Mitchell Arms Yugo M90 in .308:





The good thing about this rifle is with a little modification to the M14 mag and to the mag well you can adapt it to use M14 mags of which there are about 20 done up for this rifle to compliment the four factory mags (once again very rare and expansive)

I had a Saiga .308 done up by Tromix back in '06 but at the price and quality of aftermarket mags, I had to sell it. I still have its cousin I bought from Tromix at the same time, Tromix S-12 but Duracoated "multi-camouflage" pattern:



It has the Galil charging handle, Hand guard and pistol grip... so nice!

Here are my under folders from Poland and Yugoslavia:



I will have to update my photo's someday as my Chinese and Bulgarian AK's are not represented.

Oh and to all the AR lovers out there, the chest rig in the photo is a kit I use with my AR's for future 3 gun matches (fun shooting) my AK's are still my SHTF guns.

SF-

Lust is a sin... Lust is a sin.... Lust is a sin......

 

[mpmarty]

Best of both worlds... I'll keep my sixteen inch Saiga in 7.62 Nato and feed it 308 Winchester in a pinch. Accurate, tough and reliable. Turns cover into concealment quickly. I've got several 20 round magazines for it that fit my bug out bag perfectly. I've got enough ammo to feed it into the next catastrophe and then some.