Better SHTF gun AR vs. AK

[I-Shoot]

It seems to be clear that the quality of manufacture (and possibly the design) of the VZ is better than the AK. What would push me over the edge to consider forking over the big bucks for a CZ VZ 58 would be a true integrated top mounting scope rail... Quality manufacture and decent accuracy are wasted on a gun that does not have mounting of an optic as part of its original design, IMHO. I find that after-thought and tack-on rail mounts are usually barely sufficient over time (the DSA FAL scope mount might be the exception). Maybe I've overlooked it, but I haven't seen VZ with a factory rail on it. In that category, that would leave the XCR as far as I know.

BTW, is this "thread drift" or "thread hijack"?

 

[isher]

It seems to be clear that the quality of manufacture (and possibly the design) of the VZ is better than the AK. What would push me over the edge to consider forking over the big bucks for a CZ VZ 58 would be a true integrated top mounting scope rail... Quality manufacture and decent accuracy are wasted on a gun that does not have mounting of an optic as part of its original design, IMHO. I find that after-thought and tack-on rail mounts are usually barely sufficient over time (the DSA FAL scope mount might be the exception). Maybe I've overlooked it, but I haven't seen VZ with a factory rail on it. In that category, that would leave the XTC as far as I know.

BTW, is this "thread drift" or "thread hijack"?

Technically, yes.

But if you have ever shot a VZ, in comparison to the other two, no.

I only offered the suggestion as a more than viable alternative.

And, by the way, CZ is in the last stages of development of a factory rail.

You can keep up with that over on CZforums; go to the VZ58 thread, then

To the child thread attached called "Ask Dan."

Dan is CZUSA's factory rep................


isher

 

[sbryson21]

 

[Unka-Boo]

OK, AK guys.....scenario:

The only ammo you have available is corrosive. You lost your cleaning kit. You are in the damp PNW forests.

How long will your AK last without cleaning?

 

[2gr8dgs]

longer than an AR without cleaning.

 

[sbryson21]

longer than an AR without cleaning.

Ooooh snap! It's on now! :woot: haha

 

[Silver Fox]

I held with my own hands a true Russian made AK (Not AKM) 47 rifle when I was mentoring Afghan soldiers back in '06. It was ugly and abused with pitting on the outside of the receiver and barrel. The bore was dark and the wood was wrapped with some kind of cloth like material due to all the cracks. The chamber was nasty and the receiver was filled with gunk, sand and something that resembled some goat smelling pocket lint. For a good laugh we decided to shoot a mag of ammo to see how it would do. We were hitting coke cans at a 100 meters in the prone and maybe an inch left standing (I am sure it was the shooter and not the rifle).

The Afghans clean there rifles by soaking them in diesel and scrubbing with a tooth brush. Not a damp PNW forrest but that is pretty harsh.

I love my AR's but in SHTF I will go for my AK's (or FAL's) every time. Group of guys I hunt with have all adapted AK's as a SHTF gun.

SF-

 

[raftman]

longer than an AR without cleaning.

On top that, some folks use little more than hot water to neutralize the salts from corrosive primers. Then it's just a matter of drying it, and if you somehow lose your cleaning rod, they're not exactly difficult to "make."

 

[Unka-Boo]

Zombie Possums:

9mm or .45?


































Seriously though.....as serious as I can get in one of the most played out internet debates......In a real SHTF situation would you have time to chose? Would you be given the opportunity to debate which gun would be the best?
What kind of situation is it; keep yourself alive by hunting, or stop the invading masses? Or both?

From a "tactical" standpoint, AR makes the most sense as that's the same platform that the military and most police departments use. Mags and ammo are a NG armory away....

From a "what will take the most abuse and still function" standpoint: I lean towards AK, but the AR ain't no slouch either.

....and yes, I own multiples of both.

 

[Silver Fox]

...Mags and ammo are a NG armory away....
:

Ammo... no there isn't. Nut jobs that think an NG armory is low hanging fruit waiting to be picked... well you are in for one heck of a disappointment. Mags... those pieces of fecal matter wouldn't get $3.00 at a gun show so why would you waste all that energy going after them? You think gear is all that great? Good luck most of the soldiers have already taken them home and besides... that NG armory is going to be your FEMA field office for your free blankets and issued water. Good luck with that plan.

SF-

 

[Unka-Boo]

Ammo... no there isn't. Nut jobs that think an NG armory is low hanging fruit waiting to be picked... well you are in for one heck of a disappointment. Mags... those pieces of fecal matter wouldn't get $3.00 at a gun show so why would you waste all that energy going after them? You think gear is all that great? Good luck most of the soldiers have already taken them home and besides... that NG armory is going to be your FEMA field office for your free blankets and issued water. Good luck with that plan.

SF-

Killjoy

 

[Davidthepirate]

Ammo... no there isn't. Nut jobs that think an NG armory is low hanging fruit waiting to be picked... well you are in for one heck of a disappointment. Mags... those pieces of fecal matter wouldn't get $3.00 at a gun show so why would you waste all that energy going after them? You think gear is all that great? Good luck most of the soldiers have already taken them home and besides... that NG armory is going to be your FEMA field office for your free blankets and issued water. Good luck with that plan.

SF-

THANK YOU! I am sick of this "oh so much ammo blah blah blah" good luck getting a handout from the NG Depot thats already been ranthrough and FEMA-tized. haha. and have fun battling with the 1234234 other people who had the same idea!
BACK ON TOPIC:
Ill take a quality ak ANY DAY. I don't question the versatility and adaptability of an AR but i wouldn't think twice when when it comes to this. It has been said 12323523 times on here but for me it comes down to maintenance and reliability. In a SHTF situation i am heading as far out in the woods as i can get and i am heading out in a VW Baja with My AK. 2 of simplest and most easily maintained pieces of machinery . Now with that said i wouldn't mind a Five Seven on my hip
Anyway even if i did not have the option of traveling by vehicle i would still take the ak. Needless to say i would have a nice synthetic stock setup on it for weight and wear.
Anyway thats my 2 pesos on subject

 

[Unka-Boo]

Sweet, I'm a nut job!!!

OK, forget the whole NG armory line.....bad example....

What kind of "perfect" SHTF scenario do you guys have in your head? If it comes down to running to the hills with my guns, I'll take any and all advantage that I can, you guys seem to be picky about stuff.....

....and if indeed we're all running to the hills, you think FEMA is even gonna be a concern?

 

[The Cheese]

why was there no 10/22 option in this debate?

 

[Unka-Boo]

why was there no 10/22 option in this debate?

 

[Silver Fox]

Sweet, I'm a nut job!!!

OK, forget the whole NG armory line.....bad example....

What kind of "perfect" SHTF scenario do you guys have in your head? If it comes down to running to the hills with my guns, I'll take any and all advantage that I can, you guys seem to be picky about stuff.....

....and if indeed we're all running to the hills, you think FEMA is even gonna be a concern?

Unka-Boo... no you are not a 'nut job' but your words could influence 'nut jobs' to think there is a winning lottery of gear and ammo waiting at their local NG armory. I don't think we are picky we are just a trying to be realistic as possible. Why not have your SHTF (fill in the blank weapon of choice) already pre-staged with your ammo, food, clothes, tools etc... before hand so your SHTF firearm that you grab at the house just has to get you to your predetermined location. Just something to think about.

I am trying to change the way I currently live so if/when SHTF I should hear about it on the radio while sipping my beer and loading mags for the incoming hoards of nut jobs and/or zombies. My goal is to be at my predetermined location about a year from now, living full time.

SF-

 

[Silver Fox]

why was there no 10/22 option in this debate?

The OP didn't ask what your favorite SHTF firearm is, the OP asked if you had to choose between an AR or an AK, which would you choose and why?

SF-

 

[Nibbs]

Me, I don't see myself in the Mtns in the winter,
so if IT HTF now I'd just make sure the generator is ready,
pop in "The Postman",
have my Garand on the right, My AK on the left, the AR on the table,
me Carbine on my lap and the case of Jacky D with in reach.

Then I'm good to go.

'course I'm gonna be 103 YO next B-day so I'm full of reasons and excuses.

Did I mention the claymores?

 

[Seattle206]

what is the "road" about?

 

[speelyei]

AK? Pshhhht...

AR? wah-wah waaahh

flamethrower. Heck yes. Ever see a flaming elk start a forest fire? Ever see a crowd of people... demanding you pay them the money you owe them... back away and then be engulfed in a transluscent orange, yellow, and red cloud?

They date way back, to the Byzantine, and have seen action in every single major conflict since. No brass, no jams, you can build one from supplies you find at Lowes, Home Depot, a farm, shop, or garage.

I can just see it, kicking the AR's and AK's out of the charred hands of the fallen, a bottle of barbeque sauce in your back pocket, a welding mask perched on top of your head... awesome.

I'm glad I could clear this up.