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Better SHTF gun AR vs. AK

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by sbryson21, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. sbryson21

    sbryson21 Nampa, ID Member

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    Ok I know this debate has probably already been beat into the ground already, but I'm really interested in what you guys think. I want this to be a really specific debate between the AR and AK platforms. The reason I want to know is because I am kind of torn between the two. I want to buy one or the other here pretty soon just specifically to have for a SHTF gun, if nothing more of a reason than to just help subside my paranoia ;). And also I'm specifically thinking of the AR being chambered in the standard 5.56 and the AK chambered in the standard 7.62. What do you guys think? World's in chaos tomorow and you can only grab one of these two guns, which one and why?
     
  2. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    5.56

    As a civilian, you can use something other than FMJ's. 75gr Vmax, 77gr Sierra soft points... Unlimited options. These bullets in a 5.56 round will cause a LOT of damage to human tissue. No need to carry the heavier AK round. And yes, the weight DOES add up.

    Everything about an AR/M4 is modular. It's fast, light, and clean. The AK is a beater. A great rifle for sure, but a beater. AK mags are NOT clean and easy. For reloading, storing, or carrying.

    The safety on an AK is awkward no matter how you try for it.

    The pros and cons of both need to be weighed. But an AR is the best option. Don't buy into the false "It's not reliable" crap.
     
  3. dr*pop

    dr*pop Central OR Member

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    I would take the AR. I like 5.56. There is an abundance of ammo, and it is cheaper, plus you can carry a heck of a lot more ammo "per pound".
     
  4. huntpotter

    huntpotter SW WA Negotiator Bronze Supporter

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    Neither, Grab you FN-FAL. Good for hunting Elk, good for dropping a human with 1 shot. As reliable as an AK, can be as accurate as an AR.
     
  5. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    in a SHTF situation, i want both. AR is great, but you have to maintain it a lot. It has to be cleaned all the time. There is a lot of ammo available and it is a great man stopper. But the AK doesn't need to be cleaned. Shoe string tied in knots dipped in motor oil is clean enough for an AK. Rounds are still very available. similar to the 30-30 round in performance.

    So i wouldn't choose just one. Get both. which ever one you like more first, then get the other.
     
  6. sbryson21

    sbryson21 Nampa, ID Member

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    I absolutely love that idea. Now how to get the wife on board.... :laugh:
     
  7. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    North Vietnamese soldiers didn't have a problem with reloading under stressful firing conditions.

    Both rifles are good systems and each have their own unique pro's and con's.

    Deciding to go with one or the other is going to depend on what's important. In a SHTF situation are you going to be looking for a fight or are you going to try to evade a fight? How competent are you at working on your rifle in less than favorable conditions? What is your ability to store various small parts (SHTF UPS isn't delivering to your door)? What can you afford?

    I personally choose the AK. The AR is an awesome weapon (I own 6) but it was designed for a large standing army that has access to a logistical supply system that can repair and maintain it. The little bullet works ok and even better when you have 20 of your best friends to back you up and cover you. The Russians when they had a chance to shoot the M4 loved the ergonomics, safety selector and magazine change. But that was it.

    Americans love the AK for its durability, simplicity, efficiency and the little .30 cal short does wonders on flesh borne targets and goes deep into wood material that could be used as cover by somebody who wants to do you wrong. The AK is (my opinion) the almost perfect 'ranch' rifle, not the glorious poster boy for the GQ/Blackwater posters. A $30.00 modification to the safety selector and a FWD rail mount over the gas tube for scout type optics, a longer rear stock for the bigger guys and maybe a more efficient muzzle device and you are golden.

    Ammo (as of this posting) for the AK has dropped to about $220.00 per thousand (K) and 5.56 for the cheap stuff is sitting about $365.00 per K and the good stuff is almost $500.00 per K.

    In my opinion, if you are planning a SHTF situation, buy both. Use one (AK) as your primary and if you have a retreat or other location to go to, have your AR there as a back up. There is a fictitious pipe dream, almost a cult following belief that because the 5.56 is a NATO round that there will be gobs and gobs of ammo laying around from possible military units on the ground. From my almost 22 years military experience has taught me that is the furthest thing from the truth. Food, fuel and ammo... guess what what they have in common? They are all consumable items and Joe (soldiers on the ground) cannot get enough of the big three. So in a SHTF situation do you really think there are going to be crates/cases/pallets of ammo lying around? Look at the elections and what that did to our ammo supply.

    Final thought... the AK has a rich history of being used by local indigenous people who, individually had to multi-task (grow there own food, cut there own fire wood, build there own shelters etc...) where as the AR is used by Armies that have specialized sub groups that focus on one area of the battle.

    My 2/100ths of a U.S. Dollar

    SF-
     
  8. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Modern battlefield techniques are much different than they were back then. Not to mention how much faster MOUT operations go, or the lack of training the military gives our soldiers with their own weapon systems.

    Bad analogy. :(

    But I still agree. The AK is a great rifle.
     
  9. unionguy

    unionguy Portland Active Member

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    What he said.

    Yes, the .308 round is heavy...but I think we're all kidding ourselves (absent military training) that we're going to blow through two hundred rounds in firefights. We'll either be dead or have eliminated our threat by then. Learn to shoot well and don't be a "spray and pray" guy. And, the .308 will do the job almost no matter where you hit. Plus, its available in every hunting store.

    I guess I should be responsive to the posting. AK is my choice. Reliability even when dropped in mud...very likely in a true SHTF scenario.
     
  10. Randini

    Randini Salem Member

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    BAM it's a SHTF and somehow you have lost all your gun cleaning gear, hope you have a AK...........:)
     
  11. doobee8

    doobee8 Salem, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I like the idea of the ak's reliability with the .223/5.56 caliber. There are adapters to use Ar-15 mags believe it or not. The good one for the galil which can be modified to fit other ak type rifles, are about 150-250. The arsenal SLR106's and other hight quality ak's in 223 would be my choice. Seriously I love the FAL and full size .308s in general but how many of us are in the shape we should be in to carry the ammo, mags etc for a sustained duration? Just some thoughts.
     
  12. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    It depends on what your doomsday fantasy situation is... Is it a riot that lasts between one and three days, a Katrina level natural disaster that lasts a week before relief arrives, a foreign invasion, a civil war, the plague from The Stand, something else?

    If it's anything short term, it doesn't matter because either can be made to work well for the short term. If it's anything long term, it also doesn't matter but that's because if you're not getting resupplied with ammo, you have to make do with whatever you can scrounge. Along those lines if it's a true end of the world as we know it type of thing where we've gone Mad Max, you're going to be moving from one firearm to the next as whatever you have breaks or runs out of ammo until you can't find a working firearm or ammo.

    I definitely think a person should know his way around both the AR and AK rifles because they both exist in large numbers around the world. It's probably in your interest to learn how to be an armorer for whatever rifle you choose. If you're interested in something for a disaster, you should have some spare parts and the knowledge of how to repair your own rifle.

    Getting back to deciding between the two (if your heart is set on one or the other) -Domestically, I think you are far more likely to encounter an AR-15. The AR is more modular and easier to configure than the AK and it has a greater range than the standard AK in 7.62x39. That said, the AK has proven itself around the world to be the more rugged design of the two. Like anything else, it's a trade off. It depends on what dragon you think you are going off to slay and that determines what things you attach more importance to.
     
  13. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    I like both. But, there are differences. Although it is easy to get spare parts for both, the AR has a lot more. If you are mechanically inclined, you can maintain the AR. However, if you have ten thumbs, the AK may be better. I wouldn't feel unarmed with either of them. At this time you can get 2 or 3 Ak's for the same price as 1 AR.
     
  14. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Well, my two cents...

    Considering that most of us reading this aren't badasses like Bass Reeves or Dan Daly, a Last Stand will get you killed PDQ. The option that makes most sense is run-and-hide and live off the land for as long as possible. More rounds per pound of 5.56 will net you more rabbits and geese over time provided you can keep your weapon clean.

    That said, I've owned 3 ARs and I prefer the AK system.

    Keith
     
  15. Iansstud

    Iansstud SW WA / PDX Member

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    Fal
     
  16. 56kninja

    56kninja Portland Member

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    AR.

    I'm a real fan of the AK. And I love mine.. But the difference is astounding. I pick up my dads AR, and it just feels like an extension of my body. The ergonomics and accuracy are better.

    Personally I'd probably hold onto my AK. I know it's going to work when I pick it up, I have grown accustomed to operating it, and in a close combat situation with body sized targets, accuracy isn't going to count is much. Chances are if Im far enough to need that extra accuracy with the AR.. my time would be best served escaping.
     
  17. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    If the question was: AK vs. AR vs. FAL I would choose the FAL but if 20 of your closest friends choose the AK, whose to rock the boat?

    SF-
     
  18. 2gr8dgs

    2gr8dgs oregon Active Member

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    my AK has never failed to fire. ever. I cant say that about my ARs. I neglect my AK, I fret over the cleanliness of my ARs. I love both designs. I have no military training whatsoever. I would choose the AK-47 without question.
     
  19. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Each to his own opinion, but if SHTF in the USA I'll want my Colt AR with me.
     
  20. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'd choose the AK. On account of reliability, lower and easier maintenance, and greater tolerance for neglect (in that sort of situation, one may find it hard to find bore brushes, and cleaning solvents, and so on). I guess, also because it's what I know best.