Best SD +P load for snub nose 38 Special

[Certaindeaf]

. when discussing the same of human threats, it's mostly about expansion.

That's generally what stops, in conjunction perhaps with its associated hydraulic tertiary affect due to higher velocity.
I believe the teir-one stopper is still the 125gr SJHP .357 Magnum fired from a 4" barrel, not a 550fps target wadcutter out of a snub.. or anything else.

 

[Jason1290]

Contrary to popular belief, one doesn't need +P anything to get solid performance.

Anymore...accuracy and penetration, have been replaced with capacity and expansion.

A standard pressure WC at around 750+fps out of a snub will surpass the FBI standard for penetration...a 32 Long WC will do that as well.

You can have all the expansion you want, but if it doesn't hit something that will end the threat immediately, you may have a physical fight on your hands.

Listen to those above who stated...If you can draw and fire a fist sized group center of mass at 10 yards, every time, you'll be fine. I'll change that a bit...If you can draw and fire a fist sized group at ANY PART OF THE TARGET YOU CHOOSE at 10 yards every time, you'll be fine.

I find it odd, that when discussing handgun calibers for big animals; Bears etc., the conversation about the round centers on penetration. Yet when discussing the same of human threats, it's mostly about expansion.

I agree with you until the last part. Wild animals and humans are built different. When you have a grizzly charging head on, you want that pullet to penetrate the scull or through the chest and keep on going until it hits something vital. Wild animals run off of adrenaline and survival instinct and usually nothing stops that until the system shuts off or stops pumping. Humans are a little different. Most of the time just showing a gun will stop someone from trying to hurt you. But if it goes a step further, dumping some expanding bullets and all the energy into someone's chest regardless of caliber, it's going to physically stop them. A humans chest isn't very thick from front to back and honestly I don't think the FBI standards are all that useful for your everyday civilian worried about up close (get off me) situations. I think a good expanding bullet that penetrates 8-10" of gel through denim would be much more effective at close range than just poking a whole and possibly missing something vital.

 

[Paolung]

You mean semi-wadcutters?
The norm by far are 158gr SWC and then the 148gr target WC, two quite different rounds.

Yeah , I meant SWC

 

[nammac]

The only ammo I get repeatable performance from a sub 2" barrel has been wad cutter and semi wadcutter lead bullets. They don't expand but they do cut a full caliber hole to a reliable depth. and they are easy to control in an airweight gun.
The only HP I could get to work was the 110gr pushed to +P+ velocity, and it failed to penetrate deeply.
So for me its ammo that penetrates deep, cuts a full caliber hole, and easy to shoot from a light weight gun. That has been Federal Gold Medal 148 gr WC.
DR

Have a short case of those Federal Gold Medal 148 gr WC's as well. Real nice performers.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I agree with you until the last part. Wild animals and humans are built different. When you have a grizzly charging head on, you want that pullet to penetrate the scull or through the chest and keep on going until it hits something vital. Wild animals run off of adrenaline and survival instinct and usually nothing stops that until the system shuts off or stops pumping. Humans are a little different. Most of the time just showing a gun will stop someone from trying to hurt you. But if it goes a step further, dumping some expanding bullets and all the energy into someone's chest regardless of caliber, it's going to physically stop them. A humans chest isn't very thick from front to back and honestly I don't think the FBI standards are all that useful for your everyday civilian worried about up close (get off me) situations. I think a good expanding bullet that penetrates 8-10" of gel through denim would be much more effective at close range than just poking a whole and possibly missing something vital.

The classic stopper of all time got around 10.
Edit to add, in another video he shoots the same 125gr bullet in .38 +P out of the same 4" and it struggles to expand so for me if I want expansion from a .38 snubby it'll be 110's at +P or +P+ pressure.

View: https://youtu.be/z8WNQxIjutc?feature=shared

 

[Jason1290]

This is impressive!

View: https://youtu.be/itYcC4aHNt4

 

[Cerberus Group]

The classic stopper of all time got around 10.
Edit to add, in another video he shoots the same 125gr bullet in .38 +P out of the same 4" and it struggles to expand so for me if I want expansion from a .38 snubby it'll be 110's at +P or +P+ pressure.

View: https://youtu.be/z8WNQxIjutc?feature=shared

You can get reliable expansion out of a snub using standard pressure loads...just depends on the bullet construction.

Too much snake oil being sold...especially in the +P and +P+ area

 

[Jason1290]

You can get reliable expansion out of a snub using standard pressure loads...just depends on the bullet construction.

Too much snake oil being sold...especially in the +P and +P+ area

View attachment 2032663

Very nice! Did you happen to try those through some denim or just bare gel?

 

[Certaindeaf]

You can get reliable expansion out of a snub using standard pressure loads...just depends on the bullet construction.

Too much snake oil being sold...especially in the +P and +P+ area

View attachment 2032663

Reliable? Those are barely over bore diameter, if that.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Reliable? Those are barely over bore diameter, if that.

Those are XTPs, they don't flower expand like an HST or a Gold Dot...they crush expand. They are made to penetrate, and crush expand with sharp points and edges.

Yes, they will reliably do this every time out of a snub.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Very nice! Did you happen to try those through some denim or just bare gel?

One of the test platforms is 4 layers of denim...why, don't know...don't know anyone wearing 4 layers of denim.

All the major made JHPs won't expand through the 4 layers of denim...they all look like they could be reloaded.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Here's 32 Magnum XTPs out of a snub...as you can see, you can reload the specimens that went through the 4 layers of denim.

 

[Jason1290]

Here's 32 Magnum XTPs out of a snub...as you can see, you can reload the specimens that went through the 4 layers of denim.

View attachment 2032731

Interesting tests. Thanks for sharing. 4 layers is definitely not a real world simulation think it's just a good "worse case scenario" test. Perhaps 2 layers would be more realistic

 

[Cerberus Group]

I worked with one of the retired XTP engineers from Hornady on my loads.

You put the XTP in its power band, which is well within standard pressure load, it'll perform as it's designed to do...yes, even out of a snub.

As you can tell, I'm a big proponent of standard pressure loads. They don't beat up the gun, or the shooter...and they're better for more accurate, faster follow up shots...less blast and recoil.

 

[Jason1290]

I can't believe I just read all of this. Very enlightening though for anyone who has the time or interest.

All About The .38 Special +P and .38 Special +P+ – RevolverGuy.Com

revolverguy.com

 

[Cerberus Group]

I can't believe I just read all of this. Very enlightening though for anyone who has the time or interest.

All About The .38 Special +P and .38 Special +P+ – RevolverGuy.Com

revolverguy.com

Mike Wood is a very knowledgeable guy, anyone into revolvers should be plugged into revolverguy.com

He also wrote a great book on the Newhall incident, and dispels many rumors.

 

[oremike]

I don''t shoot or +P ammo out of my wifes Model 60. I have 2 Ruger 357's for that. One other thing of note is I don't care for the recoil of 158gr bullets in that little gun. I can shoot the 125's JHP's or TC's just fine. My wife concurs.

 

[titsonritz]

Interesting tests. Thanks for sharing. 4 layers is definitely not a real world simulation think it's just a good "worse case scenario" test. Perhaps 2 layers would be more realistic

3 layers. 2 for the sleeve, one for the chest.

 

[oremike]

Interesting tests. Thanks for sharing. 4 layers is definitely not a real world simulation think it's just a good "worse case scenario" test. Perhaps 2 layers would be more realistic

I don't know, it's winter time and inside I'm wearing a long sleeve shirt over a Tee Shirt. Granted they aren't denim but are heavy weight Carharts. If I go outside I'll put on a heavy lined coat or vest and lighter coat. Lot's of layers.

 

[nammac]

I don't know, it's winter time and inside I'm wearing a long sleeve shirt over a Tee Shirt. Granted they aren't denim but are heavy weight Carharts. If I go outside I'll put on a heavy lined coat or vest and lighter coat. Lot's of layers.

Its HBWC weather….