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- #21
Exactly!
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Best rifle, scope, caliber for deer, elk, bear in Western WA?
- Thread Starter aaronf
- Start date
Exactly!
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- Thread Starter
- #22
I would probably save any 400-600 yard shots for the "apocolyptic-collapse-of-society" type situation in which all game animals would be immediately hunted to extinction. One firing range in my immediate area has a 100 yard rifle range and the other a 200 yard range.
I look at things a little differently when trying to acquire something specific like a hunting rifle.
I would run wanted ads on every gun related forum that I can find, spelling out what I am in the market for.
You would be amazed what might come your way, and usually at a lower price than what is advertized for sale on the same forums.
I would run wanted ads on every gun related forum that I can find, spelling out what I am in the market for.
You would be amazed what might come your way, and usually at a lower price than what is advertized for sale on the same forums.
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- Thread Starter
- #24
I usually can't see 400-600 feet because of the trees and hills!
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jbet98's logic is hard to argue. If you are patient enough and don't jump on the first offer, it is amazing what is out there. I know too many people wih stories of buying a 1911 from a guy at work who got it from his Dad and found it to be "heavy" and sold it for $300. People finding pre-64 Winchesters at yard sales for $150. You know, the things that never happen to me. Kip
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- Thread Starter
- #26
I would love to be the recepient of one of those urban legend deals. Putting the wanted ads out there and seeing what turns up is a great strategy.
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As for rifle, get whatever fits you the best, that you can manipulate the best, that you can afford.
As for caliber, get whatever you can shoot the best. I wouldn't hesitate to go after any of the critters you have mentioned with a 270 that I knew I could shoot, over some 300 mannumb super geewhiz bang that so and so said was the latest and greatest.
As for Glass, buy cheap, buy twice. If you have to, get a straight 4x for the first year and save your pennies for a good optic. I have many of the old Leupy VXIII 3.5x10's on top of my rifles and have never fealt over glassed for anything.
If you have a popular rifle range close by, take a few swings in there and look at the set ups you see being shot, talk to the folks who own them and get their opinions too. You will find most that will take the time to talk to you about them will more than likely let you shoot it as well.
Good luck and congrats on taking up the sport.
As for caliber, get whatever you can shoot the best. I wouldn't hesitate to go after any of the critters you have mentioned with a 270 that I knew I could shoot, over some 300 mannumb super geewhiz bang that so and so said was the latest and greatest.
As for Glass, buy cheap, buy twice. If you have to, get a straight 4x for the first year and save your pennies for a good optic. I have many of the old Leupy VXIII 3.5x10's on top of my rifles and have never fealt over glassed for anything.
If you have a popular rifle range close by, take a few swings in there and look at the set ups you see being shot, talk to the folks who own them and get their opinions too. You will find most that will take the time to talk to you about them will more than likely let you shoot it as well.
Good luck and congrats on taking up the sport.
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- Thread Starter
- #28
Ok, so what about an AR-10 .308 or a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem or 30-30? Is bolt action the way to go? Will .308 and 30-06 will be the least expensive with the best selection?
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- #29
Thanks all!
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AR10 in 308 would work but the same could be said for a single shot in any of the previous mentioned calibers. 35Rem shoots like a rainbow and the dirty thirty isn't much flatter. Both of those IMHO are better pistol calibers than rifle. They have thier place (mostly close in work...east coast) and have taken many critters, but you know what they say about polishing a turd...
Everyone has an opinion on the best rifle/cartridge/bullet weight/barrel length/optic/overall rifle weight. You need to go handle some and see what fits the best for you, look at the safety's, dry fire one for the feel of the trigger. Consider the stocks, synthetic vs wood vs laminated, straight combs vs monte carlo style cheek humps, narrow forearms vs wide ones. They will all play into it for you.
My personal suggestion, besides the one in my previous post would be a USED Rem700ADL or 788 in either 30-06,280rem or 270win. In the 06, look at 180's, in the 280 or 270 look at premium 140's and 150's. Not every shot you are going to get will be the textbook broadside shot. There will be times where you have to quarter one thru 1/3 of the animal to drive the slug to the offside shoulder. That is where the "premium" bullet comment came from. When a "marginal" round is used (borderline too light/small) for say elk you may want to either handload or pony up the extra $ for a quality load. Either way, think about the ranges you will be hunting, where you feel comfortable taking a shot at and make sure that your round/bullet combo still has 1k lbs of energy for deer (1500lbs on elk) for that maximum range. Worry about all of that later on, go find a rifle that fits you well first.
Optics, again, look for a used Leupy VXII 3x9x40 or a 2x7, something in that range. On glass, buy cheap, buy 2x. I'm not sure about the current leupold model that is the replacement of the older VXII line, but steer clear of the "rifleman" line. Last thing you want is for it to fog up when the weather gets nasty and the hunting is good.
Mounts/rings......steer clear of the Leupold/redfield bases and rings. Last thing you want to do is on opening morning, go to load your rifle and notice that the windage screw sheared off of your ring during your last range session. I personally like Warne and Tally. There are others out there that work well too.
By my estimates, if you shop, the used rifle should probably set you back about $300, used glass $200 and that leaves you $100 for bases,rings,sling and your first box of shells.
Good luck, be sure to post up when you do end up with something.
Everyone has an opinion on the best rifle/cartridge/bullet weight/barrel length/optic/overall rifle weight. You need to go handle some and see what fits the best for you, look at the safety's, dry fire one for the feel of the trigger. Consider the stocks, synthetic vs wood vs laminated, straight combs vs monte carlo style cheek humps, narrow forearms vs wide ones. They will all play into it for you.
My personal suggestion, besides the one in my previous post would be a USED Rem700ADL or 788 in either 30-06,280rem or 270win. In the 06, look at 180's, in the 280 or 270 look at premium 140's and 150's. Not every shot you are going to get will be the textbook broadside shot. There will be times where you have to quarter one thru 1/3 of the animal to drive the slug to the offside shoulder. That is where the "premium" bullet comment came from. When a "marginal" round is used (borderline too light/small) for say elk you may want to either handload or pony up the extra $ for a quality load. Either way, think about the ranges you will be hunting, where you feel comfortable taking a shot at and make sure that your round/bullet combo still has 1k lbs of energy for deer (1500lbs on elk) for that maximum range. Worry about all of that later on, go find a rifle that fits you well first.
Optics, again, look for a used Leupy VXII 3x9x40 or a 2x7, something in that range. On glass, buy cheap, buy 2x. I'm not sure about the current leupold model that is the replacement of the older VXII line, but steer clear of the "rifleman" line. Last thing you want is for it to fog up when the weather gets nasty and the hunting is good.
Mounts/rings......steer clear of the Leupold/redfield bases and rings. Last thing you want to do is on opening morning, go to load your rifle and notice that the windage screw sheared off of your ring during your last range session. I personally like Warne and Tally. There are others out there that work well too.
By my estimates, if you shop, the used rifle should probably set you back about $300, used glass $200 and that leaves you $100 for bases,rings,sling and your first box of shells.
Good luck, be sure to post up when you do end up with something.
While reading an article by Chuck Hawks about the legendary model 70 Winchester and how much money the pre-64 rifles were going for lately, he mentioned another rifle that he thought was possibly better and could be had for very little money compared to the model 70. It was the Sears JC Higgins model 50/51 made by FN in Belgium
That got my attention and after doing some online research, I started running ads looking for this rifle.
After three weeks a guy called me and said that he had a model 50 in 30/06 Springfield that had belonged to his late uncle, and it had less than 40 rounds through it.
He had stored it for over twenty five years and been looking online for it's value when he came across my ad. I got it for $300.00 and it looked like new when he pulled it out of the original box that it was shipped in, to his uncle in Tillamook. All the paper work was there too.
I mounted a Leupold Varix-3 with Warne rings and installed a Timmey trigger. The article below describes this rifle better than I can
J.C. Higgins Model 50 & 51
By Jon Y. Wolfe
The J.C. Higgins Model 50 was the creation of the Sears and Roebuck Co. in the early 1950s. Although not manufactured by Sears, the giant retailer was certainly instrumental in their creation and importation. Information on these rifles often conflicts so I have included information derived from the predominant consensus and my own findings of fact.
The Model 50 was originally produced by Belgium's Fabrique Nationale using a commercial 98 Mauser action and 22 inch chrome lined barrel from High Standard. The chrome-lined barrels were limited to Models 50 and 51. Later models included the Model 51/51-L built on the FN and Husqvarna actions, Model 52 by Sako, and the last Model 54 by Browning.
Some report that the later Model 51 was simply an imported Husqvarna 640 and the Model 52 was simply a relabeled Sako L46. It is true that Husqvarna used FN actions on the 640, but the barrel and wood on the Model 51 are different than that found on the HVA 640.
The rifle was advertised and sold through Sears and Roebuck Co. and each rifle's barrel was marked as such. All variations included a model number on the left side of the barrel just at the end of the forearm, and a code that corresponds to the date of manufacture. For example, mine is stamped 583.100. The rifles were only chambered in .270 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield. Mine is chambered in .30-06.
Overall length is 43 inches, it has a healthy 13 3/4 length of pull, and the original model 50 was supplied with a no frills walnut stock without checkering. Sling swivel studs and a polymer butt plate were standard. Subsequent models, like the Model 51-L that I own, have a walnut stock with a full wrap around cut checkered forearm and a raised check piece.
The bolt is the traditional controlled feed type with a one piece polished bolt body, one-piece firing pin, and a two-position short-throw 45 degree safety to accommodate the use of a scope. The bolt handle is consistent with the "Second Pattern FN Action" in that it sweeps back to allow clearance for a scope. The bolt head has the traditional two locking lugs and the rear safety lug. The extractor is large and prominent. Each bolt was electro penciled to the rifle using the last three digits of the serial number, which was located on the right side of the receiver. The bolts used on these FN Belgium made actions are of the highest quality and durability.
The drilled and tapped receiver, hinged floorplate, trigger guard, and magazine follower are all made from milled steel. The floorplate has a button release for emptying the cartridges, and the trigger is grooved for a positive feel. The trigger mechanism on the Model 50 is heavy but there is minimal creep. I've talked with some folks who replace them with the Timney 98FN Sportman 101, which requires a little modification of the inletting and no safety modification.
The barrel comes with open sights and is 22 inches long. It has a sporter contour that tapers to .5 inch diameter at the muzzle.
All reports on the accuracy of J.C. Higgins Model 50s and subsequent variations have been favorable. In addition to its inherent accuracy, the Models 50 and 51 came with chrome lined barrels, thus adding to the useful service life of these rifles. Weight is 8 1/2 pounds bare and unloaded.
The overriding consensus regarding the J.C. Higgins Model 50 is that it's a rifle worth holding on to if you have one, and worth seeking out if you do not. Prices are generally suppressed because of the department store association. Despite this, it is among the finest hunting rifles ever mass produced. This point is emphasized by the fact that these can be bought at bargain prices. Expect to pay between $200 and $400 depending on condition and how much the seller knows about this fine rifle. If one were to build such a gun today using the same FN action, the price would easily exceed $1000.
That got my attention and after doing some online research, I started running ads looking for this rifle.
After three weeks a guy called me and said that he had a model 50 in 30/06 Springfield that had belonged to his late uncle, and it had less than 40 rounds through it.
He had stored it for over twenty five years and been looking online for it's value when he came across my ad. I got it for $300.00 and it looked like new when he pulled it out of the original box that it was shipped in, to his uncle in Tillamook. All the paper work was there too.
I mounted a Leupold Varix-3 with Warne rings and installed a Timmey trigger. The article below describes this rifle better than I can
J.C. Higgins Model 50 & 51
By Jon Y. Wolfe
The J.C. Higgins Model 50 was the creation of the Sears and Roebuck Co. in the early 1950s. Although not manufactured by Sears, the giant retailer was certainly instrumental in their creation and importation. Information on these rifles often conflicts so I have included information derived from the predominant consensus and my own findings of fact.
The Model 50 was originally produced by Belgium's Fabrique Nationale using a commercial 98 Mauser action and 22 inch chrome lined barrel from High Standard. The chrome-lined barrels were limited to Models 50 and 51. Later models included the Model 51/51-L built on the FN and Husqvarna actions, Model 52 by Sako, and the last Model 54 by Browning.
Some report that the later Model 51 was simply an imported Husqvarna 640 and the Model 52 was simply a relabeled Sako L46. It is true that Husqvarna used FN actions on the 640, but the barrel and wood on the Model 51 are different than that found on the HVA 640.
The rifle was advertised and sold through Sears and Roebuck Co. and each rifle's barrel was marked as such. All variations included a model number on the left side of the barrel just at the end of the forearm, and a code that corresponds to the date of manufacture. For example, mine is stamped 583.100. The rifles were only chambered in .270 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield. Mine is chambered in .30-06.
Overall length is 43 inches, it has a healthy 13 3/4 length of pull, and the original model 50 was supplied with a no frills walnut stock without checkering. Sling swivel studs and a polymer butt plate were standard. Subsequent models, like the Model 51-L that I own, have a walnut stock with a full wrap around cut checkered forearm and a raised check piece.
The bolt is the traditional controlled feed type with a one piece polished bolt body, one-piece firing pin, and a two-position short-throw 45 degree safety to accommodate the use of a scope. The bolt handle is consistent with the "Second Pattern FN Action" in that it sweeps back to allow clearance for a scope. The bolt head has the traditional two locking lugs and the rear safety lug. The extractor is large and prominent. Each bolt was electro penciled to the rifle using the last three digits of the serial number, which was located on the right side of the receiver. The bolts used on these FN Belgium made actions are of the highest quality and durability.
The drilled and tapped receiver, hinged floorplate, trigger guard, and magazine follower are all made from milled steel. The floorplate has a button release for emptying the cartridges, and the trigger is grooved for a positive feel. The trigger mechanism on the Model 50 is heavy but there is minimal creep. I've talked with some folks who replace them with the Timney 98FN Sportman 101, which requires a little modification of the inletting and no safety modification.
The barrel comes with open sights and is 22 inches long. It has a sporter contour that tapers to .5 inch diameter at the muzzle.
All reports on the accuracy of J.C. Higgins Model 50s and subsequent variations have been favorable. In addition to its inherent accuracy, the Models 50 and 51 came with chrome lined barrels, thus adding to the useful service life of these rifles. Weight is 8 1/2 pounds bare and unloaded.
The overriding consensus regarding the J.C. Higgins Model 50 is that it's a rifle worth holding on to if you have one, and worth seeking out if you do not. Prices are generally suppressed because of the department store association. Despite this, it is among the finest hunting rifles ever mass produced. This point is emphasized by the fact that these can be bought at bargain prices. Expect to pay between $200 and $400 depending on condition and how much the seller knows about this fine rifle. If one were to build such a gun today using the same FN action, the price would easily exceed $1000.
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35 whelen in 760 with scope of choice. Out to 300 yards it is the hammer fast follow up shots and good point of aim. the 760 in a notorious accurate rifle with fast follow up shots.
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- Thread Starter
- #33
That 35 whelen is a real thumper and there are some nice 760/7600's out there.
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I agree Kip, I am not advocating 400-600+ yard shots by any means. The point I was trying to make is that you have guys buying guns and optics in the thousands of dollars range, thinking they will be taking these monster shots and the scary thing is, some of them try to.
If you went with a 30-06 or 7mm you would have some flat shooting rounds capable of dropping anything in North America with no need to buy any other caliber. Leupold makes some nice scopes. I went with a bushnell because I got an amazing deal but honestly, like kip was saying, the gun/scope combos are really all you "need". Experience behind the gun and in the field is far more valuable that any million dollar piece of equipment.
If you went with a 30-06 or 7mm you would have some flat shooting rounds capable of dropping anything in North America with no need to buy any other caliber. Leupold makes some nice scopes. I went with a bushnell because I got an amazing deal but honestly, like kip was saying, the gun/scope combos are really all you "need". Experience behind the gun and in the field is far more valuable that any million dollar piece of equipment.
I like a 270 and I shoot a lot so 400 yards is not irresponsible 3x9 VXII is not enough scope for me you can get a mod 700 Rem for $350.00 at Bimart good gun should be able to find a 4.5X14 Leupold used for around $400.00 that puts you at $750.00 that's is a life time set up if you don't have that much money save up.
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A 22lr is enough for elk or bear with a properly placed shot. This discussion comes up about every 2 weeks on this forum. IMHO if anyone does not have enough hunting experience to pick a rifle to hunt with on there own, they should not hunt with a rifle that "CAN TAKE A BEAR OR ELK WITH A PROPERLY PLACED SHOT"!!!!!! THEY SHOULD ALWAYS DEFAULT TO A MUCH LARGER CALIBER THAT WILL TAKE AN ANIMAL WITH A POORLY PLACED SHOT. We're not talking about what we more experienced hunter's can do with a .270. We're talking about what is likely to happen with an inexperienced hunter who has a very high likelihood of making a mistake in the heat of the moment. Someone who apt to shoot when they should be looking for a rest, or should be waiting for the animal to stop running.
Again IMHO, a 30-06 is minimum for the less experienced and a 300 win mag is better. Sure you'll get a little more meat damage with a 300 win. mag. on a deer, but throwing out an extra 5# of meat is better than losing an animal. A 300 win mag will kill an animal even if only gut shot. The 30-06 is the most commonly used caliber here in the West for a couple of reasons. One of which is reliable kills without a lot of recoil. The 30-06 has remarkable ballistics qualities and trajectory.
My $.02
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I agree with the raiser. I like the idea of the pump action 760/7600 platform for faster follow up shots. They are even faster than a lever, and don't require loss of trigger contact or eye/scope alignment. The only thing faster is a self-loader.
I also like his choice of rounds in the .35Whelen, but I would also look at the .338-06 too. Although the M760/7600 is available from the factory in .35Whelen.
I also like his choice of rounds in the .35Whelen, but I would also look at the .338-06 too. Although the M760/7600 is available from the factory in .35Whelen.
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Having to work the pump forward at least for me puts me on target faster than a autoloader. That is my experience having hunted with both. I like dangerous game and hunt almost exclusively bears at close range and after having been charged numerous times by wounded bears. I find the pump in a whelens even a ai is the most deadly combination. I am as fast and more accurate than my friends who carry large bore pistols.
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I have a Model 50 in.270 the barrel roll mark of 583.94 denotes 09/28/51 by High Standards records. I have seen two of these rifles (One an 06 the other a .270 with original scope) advertised on this site in the past year. The .270 sold about a month ago. If you have one of these rifles I have High Standard and Sears info on the rifle such as the barrel rifleing specs.
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