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as my ex cousin in law (viet nam sniper) told me "i recorded more kills with a bolt gun than anybody did with a auto rifle.

But if you are good at recon,and can locate your adversary easily,a bolt gun is just peachy.

Again,a few well placed shots from a bolt gun can take the heart out of most long range attacks we will ever encounter. And take game very well too

A family with a young child is not a military trained sniper. No offense to your "ex cousin in law" but I have worked the range at the gun club for sight in and watched every size and shape of newer shooter bring in their brand new bolt gun and not be able to put one round on the paper. Just Jim is spot on when he advises to find a friend with guns and find out what works for each person.

Shotguns loaded with 00 buck are a great man-stopper but I have watched many small-frame LEO, especially petite women, have difficulty comfortably shooting a 7 round shotgun qualification course. I have watched the very same people use a 6920 and put an entire box of ammo in center mass, and yes one .223 round will kill you if it is a good hit.

I am not jumping into the long standing debate on which round is better, only that it doesn't matter what size of lead you send down range if you can not hit your target.

IMHO, take your time and find out what is right for you.
 
This statement is full of fail.
However the AK is the most prolific assault rifle the world had ever seen for a reason and it's not because it's junk.

It is prolific because it is cheap to buy. The masses have them in foreign countries because:

1: they are easy to obtain in large quantity
2: they are a dime a dozen
3: the 7.62 round was around a lot longer before .223 or 5.56
4: The 7.62 is far more powerful than the 5.56 round and in full auto was cheap to spray

The round aside, the AK still sucks for modern, close combat situations and would not be my first or last choice in any scenario I can think of.
 
I have both AK and AR rifles and I like both platforms. My wife was in about the same postition as MissJ, so my recommendation was kinda based on what worked for my wife.
She hated the recoil of the 30-30, she did not like the shooting the AK and still doesn't. My Tikka .308 just seemed to her to be long, heavy, and a bit hard to manipulate(she has become more comfortable with it, but it took awhile).
She really liked the AR right away, so she has her own now. She just absolutely likes shooting them more than any other rifle we own except possibly the 10-22.
I really like the idea of multiple calibers with just an upper change, which in case you are wondering MissJ is so simple any child can do it.
I have shotguns, leverguns, boltguns, and they all have their place. If I'm going against bad dudes with high cap AK or AR guns in a shtf scenario or whatever, I want equal or better. I want more loaded mags than they have, and a rifle that won't fail me with my families life on the line
MissJ, try to shoot some of the guns mentioned. If I lived near you I'd sure love to meet up and let you shoot some of mine, and you could talk things over with my wife.
Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose, and keep reading here, I'm learning a lot myself from some of the very knowledgable folks on this forum.
BTW, get some more mags for the XD, and dump the .380 for another 9mm since you hate shooting it.
Dang it's fun deciding what someone else should do with their $$$$ LOL!!!
 
in my opinion if "SHTF" i'm going with my para sks, and my wife already has "DIB's" on the mac 90--both use the same ammo ,and both can be used for defence , along w/ hunting small game--the moa's on both guns is about 4" --witch is about all you need . both of these guns can be dropped in the mud , or used as canoe paddles---wash em off in a creek , and continue to fire --though the ar platform is more accurate--i shoot w/ two friends that have them , and they spend a lot more time messen w/ them then i would do---


just my opinion........steven
 
thanks so much pauly, for your thoughtful reply. Clearly 3 guns for the price of 1 is a great deal if it will accomplish all of our needs. I guess my main concern is this: while I understand that a .30-06 cartridge is very common and preferred by many; do you think it is "manageable" as a first rifle for a small female? I mean I'm loving the prices you are talking about...but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew as far as recoil. I've NEVER shot a real rifle...only a .22 rifle.

I like the price points and the fact that they are reliable and easy to operate.

So sorry for the "green" question I am about to ask but since I am primarily familiar with pistols and shotguns....

How does a newbee to rifles go about getting educated on all the different chambers and brands and then land on a decent deal. For instance when you say "AK" I have a pretty good idea that means an AK47; russian made some sort of assault rifle. I don't even know what an "AK" is chambered in? or does it vary on model?

I don't necessarily need to become an expert, or to score the best deal ever...I just want to find a fair price for a good, reliable rifle that will function as a "starting point" to biuld our arsenal off of. I want to think this out very well so that I don't end up having to sell this rifle later because it turns out to be incompatible with our long term goals of inter-compatibility.


I hope my questions make sense and thanks for everyone's input so far...

To answer this question you need to do some reading either internet (Wikipedia) or library (firearm encyclopedia's) and make friends with some "experienced gun buddies" (not the 20 yo down the block who just picked up their first SKS, but someone who has 10 years or better of actual firearm ownership / experience) or the oldest guy at your local gun store and setup a face to face questions & answers session after you have done some serious reading and research...

JMHO
 
wow ! you have to watch out for the 30/06 --this has got some punch to it--for a small woman i would look to the 243 or something in 7.62x39,308 max---if your wife, or whatever starts off with a "flinch" it can be troublesome down the road--

my opinion only.........steven
 
My brother and his wife will not allow me to carry my concealed weapon in their house. They don't pat me down, so I carry it anyway. Recently they have been stocking up food and supplies in their camp trailer and about two months ago they ask me what kind of weapon they should buy for home defense. I was sure they were joking, but they are not! My sister in law hates guns, but she is realizing how defenseless she is in their house without a weapon. She has fired guns before, but I told them both they need to be proficient, not just familiar. They are considering a 12-gauge shotgun, or a Taurus Judge. I never liked their attitude toward guns, but now I am even more worried about this new attitude. Nothing worse than weapons ignorant armed citizens!
They voted for and still support our current President, but they believe our society is beginning to fall apart!! And why and how do they think this is happening….??!
They are more paranoid about all this than I am.
They don't like "gun people" but they want to become "gun people". A scary situation!
 
you might want to suggest a gun safety course right out of the "GATE" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this might keep your hands and mind a little cleaner !!

my thoughts only....steven
 
Yeah, my brother may be interested in a gun course, but my bet is my sister-inlaw only wants the gun in the house locked away in case of emergencies so it can "magically" save the day, somehow.
 
thanks so much pauly, for your thoughtful reply. Clearly 3 guns for the price of 1 is a great deal if it will accomplish all of our needs. I guess my main concern is this: while I understand that a .30-06 cartridge is very common and preferred by many; do you think it is "manageable" as a first rifle for a small female?

NO. neither is the .308, it's successor


I mean I'm loving the prices you are talking about...but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew as far as recoil. I've NEVER shot a real rifle...only a .22 rifle.

A .22 is fine for rabbits (although it won't easily stop a big jackrabbit) and squirrels but never use one for self defense unless that is all you have

I like the price points and the fact that they are reliable and easy to operate.

So sorry for the "green" question I am about to ask but since I am primarily familiar with pistols and shotguns....

How does a newbee to rifles go about getting educated on all the different chambers and brands and then land on a decent deal. For instance when you say "AK" I have a pretty good idea that means an AK47; russian made some sort of assault rifle. I don't even know what an "AK" is chambered in? or does it vary on model?

You're asking for an answer that will take you a long time of study to understand and cannot be fully explained here. Buy a good make of AK47 and learn all that later. Several people here know their AKs and can offer advice on what is a good make. The AK47 is chambered in 7.62 x 39 and it's good enough for taking deer up to maybe 150 yards with softpoint ammo

I don't necessarily need to become an expert, or to score the best deal ever...I just want to find a fair price for a good, reliable rifle that will function as a "starting point" to biuld our arsenal off of. I want to think this out very well so that I don't end up having to sell this rifle later because it turns out to be incompatible with our long term goals of inter-compatibility.

I hope my questions make sense and thanks for everyone's input so far...


Here are a few links that offer some good deals on AK47 rifles. Avoid the "Century" builds (several are offered in the links along with good AK47s) and do NOT just go to a gun show and buy any AK that is offered, do a little research on makes first.. they are not created equal

New Page

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/brand.aspx?mid=47

Classic Arms Inc.
 
Stay away from the AK... It is cheap! poorly made in most cases, not easy for the lay person to work on, parts in a collapse will not be readily available and it is not an accurate gun IMOP. Here is what I did. Built a nice AR lower using good quality Mil-Spec parts... Total cost $200 or less if you shop for deals. Now you can own a couple of uppers which provide you with many options... I have uppers in .22, 9mm, 5.56, 7.62x39 and even a .50 cal. That is a lot of firepower with minimal equipment. What I like about this setup:

1: I can carry it all in one case (i.e. 9mm, 556 and 7.62) or if in a hurry, throw three uppers in a backpack with mags and about 200 rounds of each and go...try doing that with an AK.
2: If I run out of 9mm or 5.56, two pins and I running a 7.62.
3: AR's are reliable when kept clean, accurate and now pretty inexpensive.

I just bought a complete COLT 7.62x39 (same round as the AK) upper with mags on gunbroker.com for $400. My brand new Olympic Arms 9mm upper with 9mm direct fit mags was only $400. So for $1000, I have two guns with completely different capabilities. My bottom line is there are a plethora of options with the AR platform.

I personally think the AK platform sucks... that is my opinion and one based on shooting for 20 plus years. If you get a chance, search youtube for high speed capture of an AK shooting in slow motion and see how much the gun moves all over.. it looks like the narrows bridge in an earthquake... they are built so cheap with that rolled stamped metal...

This thread is packed with misinformation and error. A good AK47 can shoot 3 MOA with iron sights (That's a 3 inch group at 100 yards) which is better than many shooters are even capable of, For self defense or deer hunting it's plenty accurate

Cheap? It's one of the most rugged weapons ever designed. An AK can take survival type abuse that will leave your AR in the scrap pile. (I have ARs and just built one) It's also a real bargain compared to expensive AR15 platforms. Some people only need a basic, butt-kicking reliable SHTF weapon without all the bells and whistles, and a newbie does not need to be confused with three different uppers, magazines and calibers
 
It is prolific because it is cheap to buy. The masses have them in foreign countries because:

1: they are easy to obtain in large quantity
2: they are a dime a dozen
3: the 7.62 round was around a lot longer before .223 or 5.56
4: The 7.62 is far more powerful than the 5.56 round and in full auto was cheap to spray

The round aside, the AK still sucks for modern, close combat situations and would not be my first or last choice in any scenario I can think of.

I agree with the fail
 
My brother and his wife will not allow me to carry my concealed weapon in their house. They don't pat me down, so I carry it anyway. Recently they have been stocking up food and supplies in their camp trailer and about two months ago they ask me what kind of weapon they should buy for home defense. I was sure they were joking, but they are not! My sister in law hates guns, but she is realizing how defenseless she is in their house without a weapon. She has fired guns before, but I told them both they need to be proficient, not just familiar. They are considering a 12-gauge shotgun, or a Taurus Judge. I never liked their attitude toward guns, but now I am even more worried about this new attitude. Nothing worse than weapons ignorant armed citizens!
They voted for and still support our current President, but they believe our society is beginning to fall apart!! And why and how do they think this is happening….??!
They are more paranoid about all this than I am.
They don't like "gun people" but they want to become "gun people". A scary situation!

Neither are a good choice for a beginner lady. Few ladies enjoy shooting a 12 GA. Mine hates my shotties but loves her AR15s and is OK with the AK47. The Judge is IMO never a good choice unless you need a rat/snake gun

There are so many variables.. are they urban/rural? How much $$ do they have to spend? The advice about a Glock 19 might be their answer for a first home defense gun that could later be a CCW
 
Yeah, my brother may be interested in a gun course, but my bet is my sister-inlaw only wants the gun in the house locked away in case of emergencies so it can "magically" save the day, somehow.

Folly. That's like having a tennis racket in the closet in case you ever get called the next morning to Wimbleton
 
Neither are a good choice for a beginner lady. Few ladies enjoy shooting a 12 GA. Mine hates my shotties but loves her AR15s and is OK with the AK47. The Judge is IMO never a good choice unless you need a rat/snake gun

There are so many variables.. are they urban/rural? How much $$ do they have to spend? The advice about a Glock 19 might be their answer for a first home defense gun that could later be a CCW

My wife hates shooting the 12 GA. shottie. She shoots her mom's old Remington 1100 20 GA. pretty well but it is not really a self defense weapon.
I know this thread isn't about handguns, and I don't particularly want to get into the Judge thing. If you like it, go for it, but I agree with Blitzkrieg, it ain't worth a damn for self defense w/.410 GA. ammo. Go read about it in the "Box of Truth".
 
I agree with Blitzkrieg,there is a reason so many countries use the AK or variant for their main battle rifle.It's been a proven,over and over,combat machine.

Like the Mosin Nagant bolt gun and the Tokarev auto and revolvers, the AK was designed to be used by a peasant army with little understanding of the gun or how to maintain it. Look at it's proliferation in Africa in the warlord/pirate armies.. those people have no idea who M Kalashnikov is, many of them have no cleaning kit or any access to spare parts except by pillaging another gun, yet his rifle continues to work down there day after day, year after year without CLP or a "spare parts kit in the pistol grip". I like ARs for some uses but the AK is perfect for CQC and newbies
 
You need to play with some options before you take the plunge. Many people here have offered interwebs advice and recommendations so PM them and ask if they wouldn't mind meeting you at a range so that you might try their weapons to see if they are a good fit for you. Meet some similarly minded people face to face, it doesn't hurt to have a web of contacts should you need help in an EOW situation.You need a trustworthy and dependable communications line to find out what is happening locally, nationally outside your compound. Whilst bugging in might seem the easiest option, chance of survival amongst a larger group with shared expertise and resources might be a better option. . The unexciting stuff like infection, disease and food poisoning might be a realer threat than anything on 2 legs.

As a static defence, my wife loves shooting my savage 308 bolt gun, she's excellent with it, but it's relatively heavy and inefficient. She is also very fond of shooting the AR platform. My only AK variant is a pistol, which is fun, but not particularly useful...
You might also want to consider a stealthier method of hunting, so as not to draw attention to your presence. Snares, bows/crossbows, maybe a suppressor for your .22.
 

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