Best next gun purchase for a young family

[Darktimepatriot]

If I was sent to mars and to kill everything on the planet...I would want an AK....but since I live here, where I only have to worry about blue helmet zombies I will take my STAG AR...If you own an AR then you know what spare parts you might need and keep them with you...All mine are stored in my pistol grip. but I bet I can find any part I need pretty quickly..even in a SHTF. I put mine through some pretty hard tests and never had anything break.

 

[Billy 4 HP]

I know I am probably on the fringe in my thinking compared to others responses, but I personally would expand on the capability of the 12 ga shotgun the original poster already owns (although the make and model they already own was not stated).

Depending on the manufacturer of the 12 ga, I would either expand on the barrels I have in inventory (if it has interchangable barrels) or add another shotgun (pump model) with a model that has the availability to accept different barrels and have a 18" defense barrel, a 26" bird barrel with choke tubes and a 20" rifled / sighted slug barrel.

In a survival situation, a tool that multi-tasks is far more useful than single purpose tool so a weapon that can put a variety of meat on the table (birds, deer, other game) and can also defend out to a fair distance (rifled barrel for slugs) would be invaluable.

If you know your military history, in a relative close combat defensive and offensive role, a variant of the Remington 870 built for the military had significant usage in Vietnam firing buckshot through forest and jungle terrain and was rather effective if you talk with folks with first hand knowledge.

Sure it's not an ideal long range weapon (defensively 50 - 100 yds with buckshot and out to 150 yds with rifled saboted slugs) but ammo is plentiful and fairly cheap at current prices and is easy to stock pile, and mid-level shotguns are tough as nails and you rarely see one fail to fire.

Too boot, accuracy isn't as critical as a rifle or pistol to hit your target if your sending 00 buckshot downrange. The muzzle report is likely to scare off a would-be trespasser if they are fired upon from a distance and happen to not be struck down. In a close quarters defensive situation, nothing but nothing is as intimidating as the racking sound of a pump shotgun.

The biggest con to my opinion is the recoil but IMHO it's managable and something I would be willing to live with to survive.

JMHO

 

[teflon6string]

While I agree with the people who recommend the AK (Arsenal, Red Jacket, etc), a lever action carbine in the caliber of a .357 mag or 44 mag revolver is also a good idea. TEOTWAWKI will probably involve more food gathering and pest control that pitched warfare, IMO. My Marlin 1894C was my first centerfire rifle. Recoil shooting .357 mag is barely noticeable. Also, no need for mags. Reloading straight walled .357 cartridges is easier. Out of an 18" barrel, the .357 approaches rifle round velocity and is a good deer gun. You can also shoot .38 specials. Here is an interesting thread on using a lever gun for self defense:
The Combat Lever Action Rifle

+1 MikeE

The butt simple basic aspects of a good lever gun are undeniable. They come in a lot of calibers, take your pick:
- really common
- plenty powerful
- not mad expensive (some downright cheap)
- some work in pistols
- and think about shooting .38, .38+P, and .357 mag all in one rifle.

Pretty rapid fire rate in capable hands. And even with an already decent capacity, I also dig the ability to keep reloading between shots without having to drop out a magazine or pull out a tube. Scope it or leave it bare. While you're waiting for the S to HTF, you'll have a lot of fun getting really proficient with it. Another cool thing about a lever gun is how it just gets smoother and smoother the more you use it.

Hardly the end-all firearm, nor is anything else. Just an idea you might like.

 

[coctailer]

tag

 

[19 Adam]

Wow! Thanks for all of your well thought out responses! Gave me a lot of great info to think about; but also some of you contradicted each other

Just remember anyone with an Internet connection can post a reply here.

You can do a little research on the forum to find out who has real experience and who is living in mommy's basement fantasizing. Not meant against anyone posting on this thread, just looking out for a neighbor.

 

[baada]

I agree with virtually everything titsonritz has had to say, except I would include the Arsenal SLR guns in there as very good AKs.

Don't underestimate that 10/22 you have. Load it with high or hyper velocity hollow points, and it can be a pretty nasty bugger. It's on my list of future purchases.

Here's a good page to check out: Selection of best ammunition for a defensive rifle

 

[Powderman]

Here is another suggestion...
For a defensive carbine, I highly recommend the 6920. However, for a good, all around rifle that will put meat on the table, do NOT overlook a good .22LR.
For heavier game and also thinking about initial engagements, I would opt for reaching out to the longest range possible with a common, available caliber. To me, there is no better choice than a good, serviceable bolt action with iron sights, chambered in .30-06. As a matter of fact, Ruger has recently expanded the Scout rifle concept, in .308 with an IER scope, and a DBM. Check it out!

 

[chainsaw]

While I agree with the people who recommend the AK (Arsenal, Red Jacket, etc), a lever action carbine in the caliber of a .357 mag or 44 mag revolver is also a good idea. TEOTWAWKI will probably involve more food gathering and pest control that pitched warfare, IMO. My Marlin 1894C was my first centerfire rifle. Recoil shooting .357 mag is barely noticeable. Also, no need for mags. Reloading straight walled .357 cartridges is easier. Out of an 18" barrel, the .357 approaches rifle round velocity and is a good deer gun. You can also shoot .38 specials. Here is an interesting thread on using a lever gun for self defense:
The Combat Lever Action Rifle

It's good to see not everyone is an AR freak.i just bought a Savage 99 in .308 that will be my goto rifle in case of .....anything.I put on a set of those Weaver roll over scope bases/rings and a fixed 4x scope.If the scope is damaged or rendered unusable because of bad weather,I can pull the scope over and use the irons.The Savage 99 is an incredibly simple lever gun and I intend to use it for any shtf situation that comes along.I have a Winchester 94AE in .44 mag too,what a shooter that is.I think in a survival situation,I would have a hard descision on which rifle to grab first,it would definitally be one of my lever guns though.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Use a round that is everywhere. .223/5.56, 7.62x39, .308, 30-06. That way you can stock up cheaply and have a higher chance of scrounging were TEOTWAWKI to occur.

Edit; I'm not a fan of the .223 in any platform. Against small game I'd rather use a .22, against larger or man targets I'd prefer a round that I only need one to two shots to achieve a kill. I'm slanted towards the x39 but not a fan of the AK platform due to the widely varied accuracy of them. ARs are hard to beat for hitting your target cleanly but I just don't see how tossing more than 1 aimed round at a target does anything more than deplete your stores more quickly. A .22 can provide supressive fire just as well as something more scarey.

To sum up; AK for reliability and availability of ammo, AR for widely known platform and high accuracy.

The 5.56 has a 96% stopping power ratio (one torso shot) in the Sanow and Marshall study. It's all about shot placement no matter what caliber we're talking about

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Concerning the 12 GA shotgun.. now I love my shotties, (recently have bought an FN SLP MK 1 and tricked it out, and I reload buck and my own hand cast slugs) and they are excellent home defense weapons.. IMO here's the biggest, But not the only mistake I see being made, tactically with shotties.. you get your shottie, trick it out, buy every accessory known to man, and fail to stockpile the right ammo for it (Buckshot, slugs, etc) in sufficient quantity

IMO it would be better to not even possess a shotgun, have rifles instead, and stockpile a huge stack of properly stowed 12 GA 2 and 3/4 buck and slugs in ammo cans or plastic buckets. Why? Because every other home in the USA has a shotgun, with the vast majority being chambered in 12 GA. If you survive several shootouts you will likely have several 12 GA shotguns leaning in the corner, but nearly zero captured ammo that's worth a hoot for self defense

 

[Just Jim]

The original post sounds like you have made up your mind but are looking for a better deal on price. The best deal is to buy the right gun the first time. Hope it all works out for you.

jj

 

[motoman98]

So everyone agrees on an "assault rifle" of some sort. Hummmm.
THE most common civilian rifle in the US is the 30-30. Millions made over a hundred years. Marlin or Winchester levers work well and you don't need an Armorer for a neighbor. Ammo is common and rifles are fairly inexpensive, so buy one after you spend a Grand and More on an AR type.
You won't ever regret having one.

 

[Pauly]

Hey there, we are a survival minded family in the Sandy/Mt. Hood area of Oregon.

We are a husband, wife (me) and a 2 year old boy.

We currently have a 12 ga shotgun- holds 6 shots
9mm springfield XD w/ 2 mags
.380 pistol with 1 mag (I HATE this gun...it was a trade for car parts)
.22 Ruger pistol w/ 2 mags (I LOVE this gun...most fun to shoot of all!)
Ruger 10/22 rifle. also fun to shoot.

We mostly focus our survival preps on food and property improvements such as manual well pump, fences etc. but it is time to add 1 more gun I think.

I've recently finished reading "Patriots" by James Wesley Rawles and so I figured based on his recommendations; I'd just go for an HK AR-15. But I really don't know anything about it, or WHY I am choosing it. I know that HK is a more expensive brand. I'm not too scared by costs; but obviously don't want to spend more than I HAVE to so I can hoepfully have some money left over for some extra mags, accessories and ammo.

Any thoughts on this matter? Also, I'm not 100% committed to the idea of an assault rifle...it just seems like the "missing piece" from our survival/defensive arsenal. I don't think a .22 rifle is gonna be dropping any deer or bad guys...

Your gap seems to be 3-fold.

This can all be fixed for less than the price of an AR-15.

1st, an AK with wood stocks.
The bullet can drop small game & bad guys, nothing breaks. The laminate wood stocks are tougher than plastic & can be used to butstroke a combatant. You guys can convert a Saiga, or buy a cheap WASR-10 for under $375.00 from Centerfire Systems The AK as you know, can be easily handled by your children if need be.

2nd, a Glock 17. 9mm is abundant & does the job.
The felt recoil can be handled by anyone in your family & it's the AK-47 of pistols.
1st 2nd or 3rd generation are best.
They just went way down hill with the American manufactured 4th gen, because Austria is holding onto the polymer & slide coating patents.
You can get a police Glock complete with trijicon nightsights for around $400.00 from Keith's Sorting goods in Greasham.

3rd, an old sporterized, scoped bolt action 30-06 military rifle. I like the edystone enfield. It holds 6 rounds in the mag, so less reloading if holding a position.
It can be picked up for under $200.00 at any gunshow & you can stock up on surplus US military 30 cal belt-fed ammo.

Along those same lines, is a PSL, which shoots 7.62x54r.
The PSL is an AK based medium range rifle that takes 10 round mags.
600yd is not an issue for them.
7.62x54r can be found in surplus crates & sardine cans for really cheap at gunshows. It's about the same power as a .30-06

All the weapons listed above are easy to operate & VERY reliable, low maintainence weapons which is important for survival guns.

 

[MissJ]

Your gap seems to be 3-fold.

This can all be fixed for less than the price of an AR-15.

1st, an AK with wood stocks.
The bullet can drop small game & bad guys, nothing breaks. The laminate wood stocks are tougher than plastic & can be used to butstroke a combatant. You guys can convert a Saiga, or buy a cheap WASR-10 for under $375.00 from Centerfire Systems The AK as you know, can be easily handled by your children if need be.

2nd, a Glock 17. 9mm is abundant & does the job.
The felt recoil can be handled by anyone in your family & it's the AK-47 of pistols.
1st 2nd or 3rd generation are best.
They just went way down hill with the American manufactured 4th gen, because Austria is holding onto the polymer & slide coating patents.
You can get a police Glock complete with trijicon nightsights for around $400.00 from Keith's Sorting goods in Greasham.

3rd, an old sporterized, scoped bolt action 30-06 military rifle. I like the edystone enfield. It holds 6 rounds in the mag, so less reloading if holding a position.
It can be picked up for under $200.00 at any gunshow & you can stock up on surplus US military 30 cal belt-fed ammo.

Along those same lines, is a PSL, which shoots 7.62x54r.
The PSL is an AK based medium range rifle that takes 10 round mags.
600yd is not an issue for them.
7.62x54r can be found in surplus crates & sardine cans for really cheap at gunshows. It's about the same power as a .30-06

All the weapons listed above are easy to operate & VERY reliable, low maintainence weapons which is important for survival guns.

thanks so much pauly, for your thoughtful reply. Clearly 3 guns for the price of 1 is a great deal if it will accomplish all of our needs. I guess my main concern is this: while I understand that a .30-06 cartridge is very common and preferred by many; do you think it is "manageable" as a first rifle for a small female? I mean I'm loving the prices you are talking about...but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew as far as recoil. I've NEVER shot a real rifle...only a .22 rifle.

I like the price points and the fact that they are reliable and easy to operate.

So sorry for the "green" question I am about to ask but since I am primarily familiar with pistols and shotguns....

How does a newbee to rifles go about getting educated on all the different chambers and brands and then land on a decent deal. For instance when you say "AK" I have a pretty good idea that means an AK47; russian made some sort of assault rifle. I don't even know what an "AK" is chambered in? or does it vary on model?

I don't necessarily need to become an expert, or to score the best deal ever...I just want to find a fair price for a good, reliable rifle that will function as a "starting point" to biuld our arsenal off of. I want to think this out very well so that I don't end up having to sell this rifle later because it turns out to be incompatible with our long term goals of inter-compatibility.

I hope my questions make sense and thanks for everyone's input so far...

 

[MikeE]

It's good to see not everyone is an AR freak.i just bought a Savage 99 in .308 that will be my goto rifle in case of .....anything.I put on a set of those Weaver roll over scope bases/rings and a fixed 4x scope.If the scope is damaged or rendered unusable because of bad weather,I can pull the scope over and use the irons.The Savage 99 is an incredibly simple lever gun and I intend to use it for any shtf situation that comes along.I have a Winchester 94AE in .44 mag too,what a shooter that is.I think in a survival situation,I would have a hard descision on which rifle to grab first,it would definitally be one of my lever guns though.

I found one of those savage 99's in .308 at a pawn shop - really like it! For a newbee rifle shooter, the Marlin 1894C in.38 or .357 is almost recoil free - especially practicing w/ .38's.

 

[mjbskwim]

I read some of the responses and your original post.
You said you are not set on an assault rifle.Good.Not bad to have around but as my ex cousin in law (viet nam sniper) told me "i recorded more kills with a bolt gun than anybody did with a auto rifle.

Most scenarios will put you in a situation that a few well placed shots can take the wind out of most sails.How much fight do you have left when your buddies' heads just blew up? Or two of them?

If you could take a couple intruders out,then the rest will probably retreat and give you some time.Some love to think they will have a great battle of the home front and exchange 1000s of rounds.
Not very likely.Not as likely as y'all needing an accurate gun to take dinner.

I nice,easy handling bolt gun with a good scope,in most popular calibers will fill this slot.
240,270,7mm mag.30.06,308 nato.All popular calibers and very easy to find.And to find reload components.
7.62X39 would work fine,but there is better,flatter shooting calibers out there.

If you feel you need a semi auto,there are some nice Browning BARs that are hunting semis,in some great calibers.The Remington semis seem problematic.

But if you are good at recon,and can locate your adversary easily,a bolt gun is just peachy.

Again,a few well placed shots from a bolt gun can take the heart out of most long range attacks we will ever encounter. And take game very well too

 

[Just Jim]

Some of the difficulty in answering your questions is you are the only one who really knows what will work and what fits. Alot of guns out there and you can break the bank finding what is just right. However asking others for advice they will tell you what works for them. The only advice I can give is find friends with guns you may want and shoot them first before you buy (shoot the guns, not your friends LOL). Mistakes will be made if you are in a hurry. If you run out of money then you got to live with "good enough" (which may end up really too heavy).

Sometimes the fun is in the search.

jj

 

[19 Adam]

you are the only one who really knows what will work and what fits. Asking others for advice they will tell you what works for them. The only advice I can give is find friends with guns you may want and shoot them first before you buy (shoot the guns, not your friends LOL). Mistakes will be made if you are in a hurry. If you run out of money then you got to live with "good enough" (which may end up really too heavy). jj

Great advice Jim!

 

[viperjody]

Stay away from the AK... It is cheap! poorly made in most cases, not easy for the lay person to work on, parts in a collapse will not be readily available and it is not an accurate gun IMOP. Here is what I did. Built a nice AR lower using good quality Mil-Spec parts... Total cost $200 or less if you shop for deals. Now you can own a couple of uppers which provide you with many options... I have uppers in .22, 9mm, 5.56, 7.62x39 and even a .50 cal. That is a lot of firepower with minimal equipment. What I like about this setup:

1: I can carry it all in one case (i.e. 9mm, 556 and 7.62) or if in a hurry, throw three uppers in a backpack with mags and about 200 rounds of each and go...try doing that with an AK.
2: If I run out of 9mm or 5.56, two pins and I running a 7.62.
3: AR's are reliable when kept clean, accurate and now pretty inexpensive.

I just bought a complete COLT 7.62x39 (same round as the AK) upper with mags on gunbroker.com for $400. My brand new Olympic Arms 9mm upper with 9mm direct fit mags was only $400. So for $1000, I have two guns with completely different capabilities. My bottom line is there are a plethora of options with the AR platform.

I personally think the AK platform sucks... that is my opinion and one based on shooting for 20 plus years. If you get a chance, search youtube for high speed capture of an AK shooting in slow motion and see how much the gun moves all over.. it looks like the narrows bridge in an earthquake... they are built so cheap with that rolled stamped metal...

 

[viperjody]

Here, I did it for you: