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Best/Most accurate battle rifle $$

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Speedsteel, May 12, 2009.

  1. Speedsteel

    Speedsteel Oregon Member

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    Looking for the best most accurate-reliabel-durable 762./51 battle rifle for 400-600 + yard applications at the best price.

    Considering, Springfield Scout Squad 18" 1299.00
    DSA SA58C 18" 1250.00
    Rock River LR8 16" 975.00 Or ???

    Thanks for input-experience;):D
     
  2. CommandoJoe

    CommandoJoe Pacific Northwest Member

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    I am also looking for something similar...

    I was initially leaning strongly toward a DPMS rifle in .308 because of the price (approx $1200 - MSRP) and availability (I couldn't find hardly any LR8's for sale and many people said they have feeding issues). I don't have any first hand experience with the DPMS, but I did find many good reviews.

    After much reading and thought, I am now leaning toward an Armalite AR-10T, it is about 50% more ($1700+), but comes with a limited lifetime warranty vs 3 years for the DPMS. Although if the SHTF soon, it won't really matter...

    Magazines for both are in the $50+ range for a 20 rounder.

    And just yesterday I was reading that CMMG is testing a new lower receiver that will accept G3 mags (Super cheap! 25 - 50 mags for $100 depending on steel or alloy, or $8 brand new) and DPMS uppers, but it is not quite ready yet - so now I'm thinking about building my own, but it seems that DPMS upper receivers are in much shorter supply compared to their rifles...

    Hope I didn't throw too much more confusion into your decision... lol
     
  3. terrylf72

    terrylf72 Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    I was looking at getting a RRA LAR-8. But after looking at the price, price of new mag's, and then building it the way I want it.. I desided to stick with my Springfield Armory M1A. And outside of the cost of the LAR, I beleave the M1A has less moving parts to worry about. I have had my M1A for about 22 years now. And that is by far teh first weapon i grab when heading for the range!
     
  4. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    I wouldn't get a 16" barrel for 400-600m shots. You want something between 20-24" to make those shots.
     
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  5. accurateone

    accurateone Eastern Washington Member

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    Hi<
    fwiw... Gun Broker on old 82nd has a AK actioned type Valmet in 7.62 x 51.

    If you know weapons Valmet made in Finland are some of the best. Beautiful finish, perfect machining.... no junk metal. Fine grade wood. The last Valmet of similar config in 5.56 I saw went for close to 3k on auction. They are asking around $900.
    Not overly well known by the average public, but in the quality range of HK or better.
    The Fins make rifles like the swiss make watches.
     
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  6. mpmarty

    mpmarty Oregon Mountains Member

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    Waste of money! My sixteen inch Saiga conversion left Ishmash in Russia chambered for 7.62X51 Nato and with the 8X scope and bipod it will shoot into less than 3" at 400 yards using LC NM ammo as long as the wind isn't too bad. Bench-rest shooters learned a long time ago that long barrels do not add to accuracy as long as there is enough tube to burn the powder charge. Short barrels are inherently stiffer and have better resonance qualities.
     
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  7. fromotoc

    fromotoc Downtown Portland, OR Member

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    Where can you get a scout squad for $1299?
     
  8. Twodogs

    Twodogs portland Or Active Member

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    I like an AR10 but i just sold mine and bought a socom much lighter and a great urban battle rifle.
     
  9. PDXGS

    PDXGS Aloha... yes, Aloha, Oregon Member

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    Best is pretty subjective. Accurate isn't so much subjective as experiential.
    That's to say, experience with any gun will make it/you accurate-likely to the extent of the accuracy of the round and the rfle.
    There are a lot of accurate rounds out there so picking a round is up to you.....223,6.5,6.8, 7mm,.303,.308 etc
    It likely will come down to what you prefer from a fit and feel and appearance point of view. M1As have a well deserved reputation for out-of-the box accuracy. That said, The AR10 platform is gaining a great reputation and more credibility every year.
    The other questions you need to ask yourself are:
    -What's the cost of the ammo?
    -How much does 1000 rounds of the ammo of choice weigh and what's it's volume.
    -How easy is the ammo to find? In match-grade loads?
    -Are you going to be set in one place while you shoot or are you lugging this rifle around on your shoulder?

    I've owned or shot Enfields, Mousers, FALs, Cetme, H&Ks, Springfields and a few others....all of them pretty wickedly accurate out to 300 yds. The biggest factor in the accuracy of any of these was me and my state of mind and physical condition when shooting.

    Start with improving the shooter and make your way out to the tip of the barrel.

    Then go buy an M1A and make the necessary upgrades to bring it up to Match Grade. That said, 1000 rounds of .308 will break your back.
     
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  10. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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    Nit to pick-

    Quality of the barrel lends to accuracy. A longer length lends to speed and speed lends to effective range.

    I used 223 instead of 308 but the results would be similar. Data from Quickload-

    16 inch barrel

    24 inch barrel
     
  11. Hondo

    Hondo Keizer Member

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    I bought an AR10 T. I love it. The trigger pull is nice, it's got a comfortable recoil. It took me awhile to work up a load. I dropped almost 10gr from the original bullet I was loading for my bolt action rifle. I was having some pressure issues, ie locked bolt, lots of smoke, bad feeding. After reading some info on Armalite's website and examining some spent casing's I was able to figure it out. I now shoot Nosler's 165gr. Accubond, 168gr. HPBT, with H380 and this is the result. Soon as I can get my hands on some Varget I'm going to give that a shot, maybe in the next 6-7 months. Ha! Ha! Here are some test shots at 50. Good Luck. PS. That's five rounds.

    P1030167.jpg
     
  12. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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  13. Speedsteel

    Speedsteel Oregon Member

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    Wow, thanks.

    I was looking at the Springfield as have been told I would be happy with the accurace for the extra money, the FAL becuase I love the design simple durable- mags 18-20.00, the RR AR platform flexability, and FAL mags$.

    Have been told that a 16"-18"-good barrel match ammo will perform minute angle at thoes distances = 4-6" potential? , and advised that packin 12-14 pounds of rifle all day aint fun:)

    Have access to dealer pricing:D

    No serious experience with rifle shooting, and figured others have been there and done that;)

    Appreciate all input , thanks.
     
  14. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    FN discovered years ago that the shortest barrel length for a .308 was 17.3 to 17.75" (Article I read listed in cm's and after the math those are the numbers I remember, I could be off a little bit) so the Para FAL is a 17."something" if you really need me to I could go measure my barrels and post the info.

    Hope this helps.

    SF-
     
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  15. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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    Here are some more numbers without the graphs. Again, with Quickload data.

    168 grain SMK, BLC-2 - 47.5 grains

    inches/ muzzle speed (fps)
    16 2555
    18 2629
    20 2693
    22 2748
    24 2796

    147 grain FMJ, IMR 4064 - 46.5 grains

    16 2633
    18 2712
    20 2779
    22 2838
    24 2890

    154 grain FMJ, BLC2 - 47 grains

    16 2606
    18 2682
    20 2748
    22 2805
    24 2856

    Note - I assume the backwards powder weight difference between the 168 grain and 154 grain bullets has to do with bullet jacket bearing surface differences or jacket thickness.
     
  16. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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    As an FYI-

    Here are the energy graphs vs barrel length for the 308, 168 grain SMK loaded as above. For hunting "deer" sized game, the rule of thumb is a min of 500 foot pounds. For elk, its a min of 1000 foot pounds. Seems the 1000 foot pound mark changes 80-100 yards per 4 inches of barrel. Guessing at the 500 fp mark shows why the 308 is not considered effective beyond 1100-1200 yards for "hunting." If you could hit your target. ;)

    16 inch barrel

    20 inch barrel

    24 inch barrel
     
  17. therifleman

    therifleman kennewick Member

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    My lar 8 rra will put 10 rounds in a quarter at 200 yds from the bench rapid fire. 26 inch bull stainless nightforce 51/2-22 nxs mil dot reticle. Only has feed problems with one of 3 mags. Problem is finding fn fal mags these days.I love the gun and will leave it on my favorites list till something else comes along like 50bmg or 416 barrett.
     
  18. JD42

    JD42 Scotts Mills Active Member

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    For the money I would go with the FAL. Over 60 years of production and use. I have a DSA Fal, And a DPMS AR-10 type rifle. Also had a M1A. All great Rifles. Mags are cheap for the FAL. And it will shoot just about anything. Very well made. If you are going to scope it though. The Ar10 type rifles are the way to go. But they do not have the long history that the Fal's have of battle use.
     
  19. Twodogs

    Twodogs portland Or Active Member

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    The AR-10 type rifle is the longest running type of rifle used by the US military.
    I've owned all three AR-10,fn-fal and M1A, only one i still have is the AR-10.
     
  20. Oohrah

    Oohrah NorthwestSouthern Oregon Coast Member

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    At those distances, your not in the ball park after 600 yards with calling it a battle rifle.
    Suggest consistant hit accuracy, at extreme range, to go for a bolt run action. Simple, consistant, and functioning without a tailored loads to function the rifle's action. Partial to 30 calibers and above, as there isn't as much wind drift effect as with light bullets. Further the distance, the harder to dope wind. Up to that above distance, the match Springfield 14 would be my choice. The Garands were very capable to hit man sized targets from 500 to 600 yards, 30-06 match bullets, or 162 grain APs. Very slight edge over the 7.62x51, but not sure if it really made a big difference with military loads. Remember each semi auto designed to operate under specs for that action, in powder burn rate and bullet weight.
     
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