Best armor for everyday or conflict use

[CamoDeafie]

You asked someone to show.you it was used by the military and there source is credible

body armor. Armor plate does not mean just body armor

 

[StacattoP]

body armor. Armor plate does not mean just body armor

 

[American123]

If theres enough kinetic energy for a bullet to make a dent deep enough on ar500 plate, that dent has to transfer the remaining energy into the tissue. I know of no body armor in which 100% of the energy from a rifle round is contained within the armor thickness.


Well yea, note armored car. Just what are armored vehicles other than tanks are made of ?
M113 uses aluminum armor. Does it mean we should wear aluminum plates? Heck no lol it's not gonna be thin or light enough to protect against small arms on a person.

The M1114 Up Armored HummVee has steel armor.

So rough numbers, lets say a punch is 150 foot-pounds at impact, spread throughout the surface area of a fist (google) lets say fist is 3x5 so total surface area of 15 inches, that means 10 foot pounds per inch since the impact is spread across the surface area of the fist.

Then we say a 55gr bullet traveling at 3000 fps at my impact has about 1100 foot pounds of energy at impact, but let's say it is diffused by a 10 x 12 inch square surface area it is impacting, the steel plate that has no backface deformation. The foot pounds of energy experienced by the armor is going to be 1100 / 120 or about 9.16 foot pounds energy per inch since it is spread out throughout the surface area of what it is impacting.

It just doesn't seem like when wearing armor, that rounds are going to be dropping people or doing significant internal damage when we compare that the impact the body is receiving per inch of surface area impacted is the same as the energy impact of being punched.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Ok so it looks like they used a Swedish? AR1000 steel armor plate, and a ceramic/polyethylene hybrid plate; but looks like they show that with the ceramic plate, no kevlar backer there's potential for blunt force trauma. Bringing me back to my assertion, by not wearing a trauma pad and/or 2-3A soft armor, you're gonna get blunt force trauma. Theres another test using an older ceramic plate that shows how serious blunt force can be when subject to certain ammos

 

[titsonritz]

You asked someone to show.you it was used by the military and there source is credible

So someone peddling "armor" is a credible source?

 

[CamoDeafie]

So someone peddling "armor" is a credible source?

Steel armor plate is standard for vehicles, including M1114s. Of course they'll say this is "proof that military uses ar500" the specific question you posted, was related to personal body armor, right?

 

[kukusya]

Basic chest rig with steel iii+ in the car. Fullbore vest ceramic iii+ Special threat in home.

 

[American123]

Ok so it looks like they used a Swedish? AR1000 steel armor plate, and a ceramic/polyethylene hybrid plate; but looks like they show that with the ceramic plate, no kevlar backer there's potential for blunt force trauma. Bringing me back to my assertion, by not wearing a trauma pad and/or 2-3A soft armor, you're gonna get blunt force trauma. Theres another test using an older ceramic plate that shows how serious blunt force can be when subject to certain ammos

I'm wondering if we are talking about the same thing, because the first test they perform is shooting the steel plate armor in the carrier and testing the blunt force trauma and the clay they are using behind it has no visible deformation, the plate effectively diffused the impact and energy across the whole surface area, significantly reducing what the body would feel.

Soft armor is a different story - that has never been disputed by me, soft armor is similar to a net catching a bullet and significant blunt force trauma does occur with soft armor stopping bullets.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'm wondering if we are talking about the same thing, because the first test they perform is shooting the steel plate armor in the carrier and testing the blunt force trauma and the clay they are using behind it has no visible deformation, the plate effectively diffused the impact and energy across the whole surface area, significantly reducing what the body would feel.

Soft armor is a different story - that has never been disputed by me, soft armor is similar to a net catching a bullet and significant blunt force trauma does occur with soft armor stopping bullets.

In the video I linked, they showed that a ceramic hybrid armor plate without soft armor backer still had blunt force trauma (a dent in the clay); whereas with the backer; the same plate showed a better distribution.

But they used what's called AR1000 armor for the steel armor. Seems AR1000 is supposed to be far better than AR500. Still a bit pricey however.

Obviously its "buyer beware" when it comes to purchasing armor plates online... I am also avoiding plates with origins of China and Russia because their specifications are not the same, and because of questionable quality in my opinion.
Canadian/UK armor, maybe if it is stated to meet U.S. NIJ specifications or equivalent?

Used armor is sort of a crapshoot, again because we really don't know storage conditions or wear conditions.. maybe OK for just putting into a backpack, or as backers to hard armor... but not as a primary protection system?

I can understand "is your life worth the $200-300 in armor?" But its worth not paying tens of thousands for a funeral and extensive hospital bills if survive gunshot wounds to the vitals

 

[titsonritz]

Steel armor plate is standard for vehicles, including M1114s. Of course they'll say this is "proof that military uses ar500" the specific question you posted, was related to personal body armor, right?

Military vehicles and my precious behind are two different things.

 

[Kruel J]

Soooo.........and I'm asking just civilians here.......how many of you wear body armor daily? And if you do.....WHY?

 

[slimmer13]

Soooo.........and I'm asking just civilians here.......how many of you wear body armor daily? And if you do.....WHY?

LARPing?

 

[Kruel J]

LARPing?

Ah, so like Dungeons and Dragons stuff? Fantasizing about being a "hero"? I'm just asking.

 

[Kruel J]

Edit. I find it real weird that people are touting "multi hit" as a virtue for whatever armor they pick... realistically? You ain't gonna put the steel plate back into use after getting knocked out by one round. At least not if its got significant denting from whatever rifle round hit it, and if you weren't wearing backers and trauma foam pad behind, you're going to have some broken bones and massive bruising.. hopefully not internal hemorrhage.

With AR rated steel plate armor? Nope. 100% incorrect. AR500 won't dent from typical rifle rounds such as 5.56 or 7.62x39.

Now say .50 BMG? Yes.

 

[OldTengu]

The thing about armor:
You should go jogging in it (and whatever else you plan on carrying) at least once a week. Running and moving from and into cover is a lot more difficult with 60+ pounds on you. If you can't move, you can't fight, and you may as well just hand your gear to someone who can, because they're gonna take it off you after you drop.

 

[Kruel J]

The thing about armor:
You should go jogging in it (and whatever else you plan on carrying) at least once a week. Running and moving from and into cover is a lot more difficult with 60+ pounds on you. If you can't move, you can't fight, and you may as well just hand your gear to someone who can, because they're gonna take it off you after you drop.

Good point.

 

[CamoDeafie]

And the weight training aspect is partly why I'm kind of looking at armor. But haven't pulled the trigger to buy.. because realistically? It's not as necessary for my personal purposes. the only other reason I'm looking at armor is so I can tailor custom plate carriers to a standardized size. I just found RTS Tactical offering NIJ 06 Level 4 Ceramic 10x12 SAPI style cut plates for $75 each... if its gonna be Level 4 or nothing, even if it may only stop a single .30-06 AP round; maybe it'll be suitable for plate carrier fitment and tailoring? Far cheaper than Level 3+s on Ebay. Watched some test videos looks like Lennox tungsten cored AP 150gr .308 rounds and the SLAP 5.56 saboted rounds will defeat Level 4 armor reliably... while AP4 and AP3s may defeat Level 4 plates, depending on velocity and quality of plate

 

[UnionMillsNW]

Armor is one tool in the toolbox (medical, marksmanship, ect) and exists to help potentially mitigate life threatening injuries.

There is always the trade off of weight vs comfort.

For the average American armor will never be needed.

For the citizen considering potential home invasions, civil unrest (Ferguson, Baltimore, LA Riots, ect) then level IIIA soft armor will most likely suffice since the 2018 FBI crime statistics states that less than 300 of 14,000 homicides in the U.S. occurred with a rifle of any type .

The benefit of IIIA soft armor is that it is light, generally comfortable, concealable, and less likely to cause fatigue.

For the citizens concerned with additional threats and looking to acquire hard armor...that is totally going to depend on an individuals emergency plan, fitness, and a variety of other factors.

The debate can rage all day about Steel vs Ceramic, Level III vs III+ vs IV .

I think a good rule is that if you decide to purchase hard armor it should, at a minimum, protect you against your own primary rifle caliber.

For a low price obtaining armor is not out of reach of most citizens. It may stay in a locker or trunk somewhere and never be used beyond the range or occasional workout.

So take a realistic look at your emergency plan, buy what works for you, obtain medical training (damaged extremities are not covered by armor and can be lethal) and most importantly: be safe.

Safe shooting and I pray nobody on this forum ever has to use their armor.

 

[American123]

View attachment 648446

Armor is one tool in the toolbox (medical, marksmanship, ect) and exists to help potentially mitigate life threatening injuries.

There is always the trade off of weight vs comfort.

For the average American armor will never be needed.

For the citizen considering potential home invasions, civil unrest (Ferguson, Baltimore, LA Riots, ect) then level IIIA soft armor will most likely suffice since the 2018 FBI crime statistics states that less than 300 of 14,000 homicides in the U.S. occurred with a rifle of any type .

The benefit of IIIA soft armor is that it is light, generally comfortable, concealable, and less likely to cause fatigue.

For the citizens concerned with additional threats and looking to acquire hard armor...that is totally going to depend on an individuals emergency plan, fitness, and a variety of other factors.

The debate can rage all day about Steel vs Ceramic, Level III vs III+ vs IV .

I think a good rule is that if you decide to purchase hard armor it should, at a minimum, protect you against your own primary rifle caliber.

For a low price obtaining armor is not out of reach of most citizens. It may stay in a locker or trunk somewhere and never be used beyond the range or occasional workout.

So take a realistic look at your emergency plan, buy what works for you, obtain medical training (damaged extremities are not covered by armor and can be lethal) and most importantly: be safe.

Safe shooting and I pray nobody on this forum ever has to use their armor.

One thing to consider about soft armor vs hard armor - if a person is deciding to wear soft armor - even if it can stop a pistol, it will still damage the body and potentially break bones. Hard armor stops pistol rounds and also prevents trauma from impact.

 

[CamoDeafie]

One thing to consider about soft armor vs hard armor - if a person is deciding to wear soft armor - even if it can stop a pistol, it will still damage the body and potentially break bones. Hard armor stops pistol rounds and also prevents trauma from impact.

It would be nice to find a set of 3A hard plates that aren't steel or at the least, has both aramid and polyethylene or very thin layer of titanium?