Best 45acp ball ammo for bear?

[Phillyfan]

OK, don't want to start the whole, "Is the 45 acp good enough protection from bear" debate again (it's what I have and isn't changing), but I have read that ball ammo would make more sense for this purpose than hollow points or self-defence rounds due to extra penetration, makes sense to me. Problem is, I can't seem to find a good +p fmj out there. I thought about Pow'rball, there ballistics claims are impressive, but those are just about the same as hollow points really. Anyone have some suggestions?

Additional info: I guess I should've mentioned that my pistol is a HK45.

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[The Quiet Man]

The old military load of a 230 grain bullet at 885 fps was plenty potent without being unmanageable for most people able to shoot a big bore handgun. Federal still makes a round to those specs and I suspect others do also. Going +P will slow up your second shot and be a handful you might want to do without. Just my opinion, but I would choose a US manufactured brass cased military hardball load equivalent.

 

[Phillyfan]

Safe for all 45ACP pistols rated for +P. Not recommended for Glock and HKUSP pistols because of the polygonal rifling.

SHOOT! Guess what, HK45. Not a USP, but it has the polygonal rifling. Dang! That would've been perfect too.

 

[2gr8dgs]

If your serious about bear protection, & are shooting a 1911 style 45, you should look into a 460 Rowland kit.
.460 Rowland
<broken link removed>

 

[Phillyfan]

I was looking at the Buffalo Bore, thanks CW. Almost bought a box, but wanted to see if there was something better out there. Good thing is Sportsman's in Clackamas has a ton of it right now.

 

[Point356]

10mm 165gr. Brass Jacketed HP 50rds $41.00


Click to enlarge
This defensive load combines the ultimate in bullet technology
with good old fashioned SPEED!

Caliber : 10mm

Bullet : 165gr Remington Golden Saber Hollow Point

Ballistics : 1425fps/ 744ft./lbs. - Glock 20
1175fps / 506 ft lbs 100yds Glock 20
Glock 29 - 1360fps

Box of 50rds.





.45ACP 230gr Controlled Expansion JHP 50rds. $41.00


Click to enlarge
An excellent deep penetrating defensive load.

Caliber : .45ACP

Bullet : 230gr. Controlled Expansion JHP

Ballistics : 1010fps/ 521 ft./lbs. - 5" 1911

Box of 50rds.


I love seeing this!! Put your HK45 back in the curio and pick up something chamberd in 10mm

 

[Gunner3456]

By nature, any handgun load is weak compared to a large center fire rifle. I wouldn't count on instantly stopping a bear with any handgun.

I had to shoot a rottweiler dead on in the chest as he raised up at me, and it was the lucky but perfect heart/lungs hit. That was a S&W .40 JHP. That dang dog turned and ran, barking/crying all the way (how I don't know) for about 100 yards before he dropped stone dead.

Heck, I've seen a deer run about 100 yards before dropping dead after a sideways heart/lung shot from a 30-06.

I'm not so sure that there's any handgun that would drop a bear before he got you if that was his intention.

$.02

 

[Phillyfan]

I love seeing this!! Put your HK45 back in the curio and pick up something chamberd in 10mm

Very funny! Of course, I didn't see any 10mm on the shelf at the gun shop today, or last week, or...........................................

 

[Wenis]

Very funny! Of course, I didn't see any 10mm on the shelf at the gun shop today, or last week, or...........................................

I bought 6 boxes last week in Washington... it's out there.

 

[Phillyfan]

I bought 6 boxes last week in Washington... it's out there.

Awesome, to bad I don't own a 10mm or live in Washington. Honestly, I love my HK and the only thing I would consider selling it for would be to buy an XDm 45 and get something cool with the leftover $400.

 

[LibertyorDeath]

Our SERT team uses HK45's. I see no reason to change your weapon. I know that US uses 9MM NATO and it is essentially +P ball ammo. Is the US .45 ammo the same?

<broken link removed>

FAIRBANKS--A backpacker shot and killed a grizzly bear Friday night in Denali National Park and Preserve, the first such incident within the park's original borders in decades and also the first since a February change in federal laws allowed licensed visitors to carry loaded guns in national parks, a parks spokeswoman said Sunday afternoon.

Parks biologists and rangers are investigating the case, trying to figure out whether the backpacker had justification for shooting the bear, said Kris Fister, a park spokeswoman. The parks service was withholding the hiker's name as of Sunday.

Fister's statement read that "it is legal to carry a firearm in the (original) portion of the park, but it is not legal to discharge it."

The incident was first reported Saturday in Daily News-Miner columnist Kris Capps' blog. Fister confirmed Sunday that two backpackers came across signs of the bear while hiking along the edge of Tattler Creek. The lead hiker then drew a .45-caliber pistol and, when the bear emerged and charged the second hiker, a woman, fired roughly nine shots in its direction.

Fister said the bear retreated to the brush and the hikers re-covered roughly 1.5 miles back to reach the park's road, where they found a park employee and reported the incident.

Read more: Fairbanks Daily News-Miner - Grizzly bear shot killed in Denali National Park

 

[shotgun-2]

I would second using Double Tap Ammo's 255 gr SWC +P. Not all guns cycle LSWC, you would have to try to find out.

As for the lead in your gun, I might be wrong but I'd bet if you only fired a mag or two and then did a good cleaning you would be OK, and then just used LSWC if you had to it would not hurt anything. Thats just my opinion and I am sure some experts will give us more info on the subject.

Carry a large can of bear spray for your first-line defense, and make noise while walking in bear country. :bow:

 

[shotgun-2]

You could be right about the accuracy/keyhole issue with LSWC +P ammo in a polygonal rifled barrel, but that is why you test the gun-ammo combo first, that needs to be done with whatever load you go with.

I still believe you can shoot some lead bullets thru a polygonal barrel, my understanding is they lead the barrel fast and are not as accurate as jacketed. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this issue as I would not want to misslead anyone with this practice if it dangerous in any way. I've heard about the Glock kaboom problem (theory) and lead bullets, but if you did a good cleaning after a couple of test mags thru the gun how could this blow up a gun?

Back to the bear load question, I personally have been disappointed in 45 ball ammos preformance except for the fact that it is the most reliable feeding ammo in an auto.
You don't want quick expanding personal defense ammo due to lack of penatration on bears.
If your gun will function and shoot just close to point of aim with hard cast LSWC,s that would be your best choice, and the heavier grain bullet the better.

Also out in the woods with the exception of Alaska, I believe other bad critters such as feral dogs, and rabid small animals are a more real threat than bears and cats, and your 45 ACP would serve well for them too.

 

[Cliph]

John Moses Browning (one of my heroes) designed the .45 ACP round to meet the requirements of the US Cavalry which had been using .45 Colt. The cavalry wanted a round that could kill a horse, so that was the requirement, or so I have been told. Also I'm told, that his original design was a 200 gr. round, but the Army wanted a 230 gr ball bullet as its standard.

 

[The Quiet Man]

... Back to the bear load question, I personally have been disappointed in 45 ball ammos preformance except for the fact that it is the most reliable feeding ammo in an auto...

Just curious as to the circumstances in which you were disappointed in the performance of .45 ACP ball ammo. Which manufacturer or loads? What applications? Thanks.

 

[LibertyorDeath]

John Moses Browning (one of my heroes) designed the .45 ACP round to meet the requirements of the US Cavalry which had been using .45 Colt. The cavalry wanted a round that could kill a horse, so that was the requirement, or so I have been told. Also I'm told, that his original design was a 200 gr. round, but the Army wanted a 230 gr ball bullet as its standard.

Close, it was discovered that the best weight was a 230GR bullet. As for the .45ACP this round was chosen because of stopping power issues with the .38LC rounds with Moro guerilla's during the Phillipine-American War. They also discovered the Colt 1892 was not suitable for jungle warfare and began trials for a new pistol. The 1911 was the pistol chosen at the end of the trials.

 

[The Quiet Man]

Both Cliph and LibertyorDeath are correct. The cartridge morphed over the years the pistol was being developed and tested. Here is a link where you can spend a lot of time learning about both the 1911 and the .45 ACP cartridge development, if you have the interest. The Sight's M1911 .45 ACP Page
Click on "1911 History" to get started. Then click on "45 caliber cartridge" for the good stuff about the round development.

 

[Cliph]

That is also true, Liberty. I should have been more clear, I was referring to the stopping power of the .45 ACP. If it can put down a horse with 1 shot, it should be suitable for any beast in North America. Shot placement, of course, is king!

 

[mwheue]

Not to dig up a old thread from the grave. But here is a good article and it will make you think about this subject.

Man survives struggle with black bear in Oregon - seattlepi.com

 

[the4thshake]

....and more food for thought.

http://www.bakercityherald.com/Local-News/‘Bears-always-run-away