Besides me, who all is waiting for a stamp?

[jekbrown]

ATF is notoriously slow to mail approved forms. I remember the first paper forms I did (2014) that it ended up taking nearly a month for the forms to arrive at my house. I'm order to ease my frustration I turned it into a game, and with each passing day I calculated which animal could have WALKED from WV alllll the way to my house in WA. IIRC, I was down to the small woodland animals like mice etc. when the stamps finally arrived...

 

[70cyclone]

When were those submitted out of curiosity?

2 just before xmas...the mia one 2 weeks later

 

[Iceman04503]

Woke up to an atf email this morning. My formn1 sbr was approved. Submitted on 04/13, so it only took 173 days. Now to get the lower engraved.

 

[HappyValleyAP]

Woke up to an atf email this morning. My formn1 sbr was approved. Submitted on 04/13, so it only took 173 days. Now to get the lower engraved.

Okay that makes me feel like mine have to be close.. My checks (3) were cashed April 9th.. When were yours cashed? I gotta see my stamps soon enough..

 

[Iceman04503]

Okay that makes me feel like mine have to be close.. My checks (3) were cashed April 9th.. When were yours cashed? I gotta see my stamps soon enough..

It was cashed a day or two after I believe.

 

[HappyValleyAP]

Awesome I'm REALLY optimistic now....!!

 

[Quartermaster]

Woke up to an atf email this morning. My formn1 sbr was approved. Submitted on 04/13, so it only took 173 days. Now to get the lower engraved.

I can't speak highly enough of BYE engraving on Barbur, but unless you intend to sell the SBR, then the lower doesn't HAVE to be engraved. As long as you made it from an existing firearm, and not an 80% lower.

Source:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thet...-engrave-your-form-1ed-sbr/amp/?client=safari

 

[wired]

I can't speak highly enough of BYE engraving on Barbur, but unless you intend to sell the SBR, then the lower doesn't HAVE to be engraved. As long as you made it from an existing firearm, and not an 80% lower.

Source:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thet...-engrave-your-form-1ed-sbr/amp/?client=safari

Belay that advice. Not true. You absolutely do need to engrave the makers mark information on the receiver or conspicuously on the barrel. The article you provided is just plain wrong. 80% guns that are made into NFA devices need to be engraved and existing firearms/receivers that are built into SBR's need to be engraved with the makers mark/city etc even if you have no intention of selling them. The article is wrong. Nick Leghorn does some interesting work but he is NOT a firearms law expert and calling the ATF for an opinion of whoever answers the phone is just plain stupid.

27 CFR 479.102 - How must firearms be identified?

 

[Quartermaster]

Belay that advice. Not true. You absolutely do need to engrave the makers mark information on the receiver or conspicuously on the barrel. The article you provided is just plain wrong. 80% guns that are made into NFA devices need to be engraved and existing firearms/receivers that are built into SBR's need to be engraved with the makers mark/city etc even if you have no intention of selling them. The article is wrong. Nick Leghorn does some interesting work but he is NOT a firearms law expert and calling the ATF for an opinion of whoever answers the phone is just plain stupid.

27 CFR 479.102 - How must firearms be identified?

You can call me wrong all you want, but the source you provided doesn't support your tantrum.
Also, the barrel isn't the gun, and doesn't need to be engraved.

 

[wired]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2013-3-adopting-identification-firearms/download

Held, pursuant to 27 CFR 478.92(a)(4)(i) and 479.102(c), ATF authorizes licensed
manufacturers and licensed importers of firearms, and makers, to adopt the serial number,
caliber/gauge, and/or model already identified on a firearm without seeking a marking
variance, provided all of the following conditions are met:
1. The manufacturer, importer, or maker must legibly and conspicuously place on the
frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide (if applicable) his/her own name (or
recognized abbreviation) and location (city and State, or recognized abbreviation of
the State) as specified under his/her Federal firearms license (if a licensee);
2. The serial number adopted must have been marked in accordance with 27 CFR
478.92 and 479.102, including that it must not duplicate any serial number adopted
or placed by the manufacturer, importer, or maker on any other firearm;
3. The manufacturer, importer, or maker must not remove, obliterate, or alter the
importer's or manufacturer's serial number to be adopted, except that, within 15
days of the date of release from Customs custody, a licensed importer must add
letters, numbers, or a hyphen (as described in paragraph 4) to a foreign
manufacturer's serial number if the importer receives two or more firearms with the
same serial number;
4. The serial number adopted must be comprised of only a combination of Roman
letters and Arabic numerals, or solely Arabic numerals, and can include a hyphen,
that were conspicuously placed on the firearm; and
5. If the caliber or gauge was not identified or designated (e.g., marked "multi") on
the firearm, the manufacturer, importer, or maker must legibly and conspicuously
- 4 -
mark the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide (if applicable) with the actual
caliber/gauge once the caliber or gauge is known.
Held further, licensed manufacturers seeking to adopt all of the required markings,
including the original manufacturer's name and place of origin, must receive an approved
variance from ATF

 

[wired]

.2.1 Description of firearm.If an existing firearm or firearm receiver is being used, the name and location of the original manufacturer of the weapon should be entered in Block 4(a). If the applicant is making a completely new firearm, the applicants name and location should be entered in Block 4(a). The type of firearm being made, i.e., short barrel rifle, short barrel shotgun, any other weapon, silencer or destructive device, is to be entered in Block 4(b). The caliber or gauge of the firearm is to be entered in Block 4(c). If a model designation has been assigned to the firearm, that designation is to be placed in Block 4(d). If the weapon has no model designation, enter “none” in Block 4(d). The length of the barrel is to be entered, in inches, in Block 4(e) and the overall length of the firearm is to be entered, in inches, in Block 4(f).
All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings95. If an existing firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and entered in Block 4(g). If the weapon is of new manufacture, the applicant must assign a unique serial number and enter it in Block 4(g). For example, a unique serial number could be composed of at least 4 digits preceded by the initials of the maker. NOTE: alpha characters, e.g., a name, will not be accepted as a serial number. If a name is to be used, there must be at least one numeric character in addition to the alpha characters.
The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon.96 The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements.

Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
PART 479â€"MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS
Subpart Gâ€"Registration and Identification of Firearms

§ 479.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.

(b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).

(c) The Director may authorize other means of identification upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.

(d) In the case of a destructive device, the Director may authorize other means of identifying that weapon upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be dangerous or impracticable.

(e) A firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.

(f)(1) Any part defined as a machine gun, muffler, or silencer for the purposes of this part that is not a component part of a complete firearm at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.

(2) The Director may authorize other means of identification of parts defined as machine guns other than frames or receivers and parts defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.

(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512â€"0550)
[T.D. ATFâ€"461, 66 FR 40601, Aug. 3, 2001]

 

[wired]

You can call me wrong all you want, but the source you provided doesn't support your tantrum.
Also, the barrel isn't the gun, and doesn't need to be engraved.

The barrel can the makers information as well as the caliber designation . Look at a Colt SAA. Its all on the barrel. The frame must have the serial number but the rest can be on the receiver or the barrel.

Where the ATF bonehead giving legal advice on the phone to Mr Leghorn screwed up is in the difference between a maker and a manufacturer. As a form 1 applicant you are a maker and not a manufacturer . A manufacturer is a legal title for an 07 FFL licensee. Different rules apply . A manufacturer must apply his markings before selling. A maker applies his markings before building. Had he requested an actual opinion letter it would have been reviewed by the tech branch and legal and he would have received the correct answer.

 

[Iceman04503]

I don't plan on selling the sbr. Too much hassle to sell and I waited nearly 6 months for the tax stamp so I'm keeping it and passing it on to my son.

 

[Quartermaster]

The barrel can the makers information as well as the caliber designation . Look at a Colt SAA. Its all on the barrel. The frame must have the serial number but the rest can be on the receiver or the barrel.

Where the ATF bonehead giving legal advice on the phone to Mr Leghorn screwed up is in the difference between a maker and a manufacturer. As a form 1 applicant you are a maker and not a manufacturer . A manufacturer is a legal title for an 07 FFL licensee. Different rules apply . A manufacturer must apply his markings before selling. A maker applies his markings before building. Had he requested an actual opinion letter it would have been reviewed by the tech branch and legal and he would have received the correct answer.

Provide a source that supports that claim, and the definitions. Otherwise, it's just another keyboard commander claiming to know all the rules.

I don't plan on selling the sbr. Too much hassle to sell and I waited nearly 6 months for the tax stamp so I'm keeping it and passing it on to my son.

Like I said, BYE engraving is good people, and can usually get you in the same day. I'm very pleased with their work.

 

[Iceman04503]

Like I said, BYE engraving is good people, and can usually get you in the same day. I'm very pleased with their work.

I know about bye. I made an appointment for tomorrow to get it engraved. What's their price? I forgot to ask.

 

[wired]

Provide a source that supports that claim, and the definitions. Otherwise, it's just another keyboard commander claiming to know all the rules.

Definitions and supporting sources other than those above that were pretty clear.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-6/download

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-7/download

I can highlight all the applicable regs if you like to make it easier to understand.

 

[wired]

And for those who must have an ATF opinion letter on the subject...



Read that third paragraph closely



If anyone would like to post an opposing official ATF tech branch opinion letter I for one would love to see it.

 

[Quartermaster]

I know about bye. I made an appointment for tomorrow to get it engraved. What's their price? I forgot to ask.

They gave me a veteran discount, which I didn't ask for. I think it's normally in the $30-40 range.

 

[Iceman04503]

Finished product.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

Woke up to an atf email this morning. My formn1 sbr was approved. Submitted on 04/13, so it only took 173 days. Now to get the lower engraved.

This is exciting! I'm only 2.5 months behind you!