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Benzodiazpines & pain killers linked to Homicides

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by RicInOR, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Not wanting to restrict a persons ability to defend them self; but use of these for long term or in high doses, especially the Benzodiazpines, may need to be looked at; Like you do when you drink - if you are choosing to get wasted, choose to put up the firearm first.

    http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/06/01/medications-linked-to-homicide/




    "ATLANTA (CBS Atlanta) – For the first time ever, scientists have linked prescription drugs that affect the central nervous system to an increased risk of committing a homicide.

    European researchers found that people who were taking a class of tranquilizers called benzodiazpines were more likely to kill someone than those who were not taking these medicines, reports Live Science.

    Those drugs are used to treat anxiety, insomnia and panic disorders. Pain relievers such as opioid medications and anti-inflammatories were also found to increase a person’s risk of homicide."
     
  2. MaxwellEdison

    MaxwellEdison Portland Metro Area New Member

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    I wonder...is it really the drugs that cause this, or is it that people who use these drugs may - for a variety of reasons - be more inclined to kill others. In other words, is this a case of "correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation"?

    Even the article suggests this:

    "It's important to point out that the study found an association, not a cause-and-effect relationship, so it does not prove that the use of specific drugs could lead someone to kill."

    Finding an association between things is actually quite easy. Proving cause and effect is an entirely different matter.
     
  3. Roger65

    Roger65 Portland Active Member

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    In the article it states that benzodiazepines increase the risk of homicide by 45 percent, but that anti-inflammatory pain killers (a class that includes aspirin) increased homicide risk by 200 percent.

    I guess we should prohibit people who take aspirin from firearm ownership?
     
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  4. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    My joint pain will be the death of you, I predict...
     
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  5. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well that makes sense, who hasn't popped an aspirin or Ibuprofen ? I imagine everyone whose killed someone, in the USA anyway, has popped a couple sometime in their life.......I wonder what percent "drinking water" would be.............:confused:
     
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  6. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    I think its all about ones genetics and brain chemistry..

    I have family who have/had chronic pain
    And had to take pain killers like candy. (Not because of addiction)
    They'd die before they could harm someone.
    Id like to see a location of where these subjects were tested.. In a city? In the suburbs? In the country?

    My personal belief is what the satirical movie "Idiocracy" showed.. The stupidest and weakest of our society breed like rabbits..while the strongest, brightest and healthiest tend to wait or opt to not have children.. This is where most of this stems from.. Societies are taken over by the weakest genetic codes..

    So depending on where you collected the pool of %'s of folks more likely to harm someone after taking a pharmaceutical drug.. Look no further than their location and family history.

    Say what you will about eugenics but there is a serious need for it in terms of creating a strong, resilient and sophisticated society that either dont need pharmaceutical drugs OR are capable of taking them and not going off the deep end.
     
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  7. winchester270

    winchester270 Lafayette Active Member

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    Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common... and it's not guns


    I have not done any research into pain killers but I do not believe altering ones mind with antidepressant drugs can be a good solution to a sensitive problem. I do not believe that a guy in a lab coat can " fix " and intricate system like your brain with a simple pill. If God created it then I doubt you will be able to improve upon his design.

    Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_m...tric_drugs_antidepressants.html#ixzz3brIt1AZO

    http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/
     
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  8. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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  9. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    This is what’s wrong with society they cant even do a competent study. Is it really a surprise to learn that violent people use psychoactive drugs and that they would be also inclined to take painkillers? Did it really take a 'scientific' study to conclude this and then misconstrue the data to associate a cause and effect? BS.

    What about all the legitimate people who do not abuse prescribed drugs?

    How about they do a study to show that violent people are more inclined to abuse psychoactive drugs, throw in painkillers while they are at it? How about they do a study to show what causes someone to become homicidal and not blame it on the drugs?


    I'd like to do a study that shows that people who conduct or believe studies like these are more likely to support gun control...? Think about it...
     
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  10. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    I think its all about ones life experiences and influences, especially at early or developing age range. I cant say genetics or brain chemistry do not have a role in it though, I just put a higher value on simple life experiences and influences as to how the person turns out in life.
     
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  11. Roger65

    Roger65 Portland Active Member

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    What I want to know is, where did they find a control group of people who haven't taken over the counter pain meds to do their study?

    Amish people perhaps?
     
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  12. Roger65

    Roger65 Portland Active Member

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    My joint pain will beat you to it.
     
  13. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I'm a lucky man... nearly 50 and very rarely need to ingest any kind of medication. I come by my psychosis by honest means. o_O :D
     
  14. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have heard about the correlation between mental health and mass shootings.
    I have heard about a correlation between drugs prescribed for mental health and mass shootings.
    I have heard about the correlation of certain sleeping medications ( ambien ) and homicidal urges in a specific group of persons ( SF Operators )
    I had not heard about pain meds. Those I know with cronic pain are more likely to have anger outbursts than those do are not in cronic pain - but that is a small study sample.

    I also know about the correlation between the average person and studies - how do you write a summation suitable for the public? Almost 100% of murderers have eaten tomatoes.


    One thing I am growing more concerned with is the interaction of drugs in the petri dish which is the human body. You can't be 100% certain what you eat - was there added human hormones in your bacon this morning - (more actually, did the pig get fed those, and if they did, do the hormones get trapped in the belly fat and survive the smoking (or adding of more chemicals to simulate smoking) process? ) What do the drugs you take break down into in your body? Do they break down differently in the presence of different chemicals? And what kind of scientific measure is "do you feel better" anyway?

    Regardless, mental health issues are serious. Too serious to be left to non-mental health professionals.


    I agree with @Koda, these kinds of studies can result in political reactions.



    I searched for the study, but I don't believe it has been published to the web just yet. If someone has it, please share.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10.1002/(ISSN)2051-5545
     
  15. MaxwellEdison

    MaxwellEdison Portland Metro Area New Member

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    I dunno. While I don’t take anti-depressants myself, I understand why some do and why some people might be helped by them.


    Think about it…our bodies have evolved over tens of thousands of years. Yet, society and culture has evolved MUCH faster. Some say human knowledge has advanced more in the past 100 years than the prior 10,000 years combined. And since the evolution of our brains and biology very much lags behind the evolution of society and culture, some people (a lot of people, probably) have trouble coping with the stresses and demands of this modern culture and society. Their brains literally aren’t (yet) hard-wired to soak it all in, which can cause a host of issues we collectively call “mental illness”.


    If some of these people can be helped with medication, that may not be a bad thing. After all, that’s precisely what medication is for: helping our bodies deal with things that they can’t naturally deal with. Given this, I’m not sure the “If God created it” argument is valid here. Because if we take that thought to its logical extreme, we wouldn’t have most of the modern medicines we have. Things like antibiotics and other lifesaving drugs are almost all derived from organic chemistry, where men in lab coats took God’s designs and manipulated them into forms more useful to humans. E.g., humans discovered salicin by taking God’s creation (White Willow bark), extracting it and adding some additional molecules to give us aspirin. That’s not a bad thing.


    Don’t get me wrong…I’m not saying that everyone should start popping pills. I’m also not saying that anti-depressants are a perfect solution. For certain, they can come with their own sets of problems, and there’s still much about these drugs we don’t know. I’m just saying that in some people, the use of psychotropic medications may be useful in helping them cope with things their brains literally aren’t equipped to cope with. It’s worth considering, no?
     
  16. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of a science experiment we conducted in 5th grade. We studied the number and locations of earthworms after it rained. We counted worms in the playground, on the sidewalk, and on the road. We even calculated the number of worms per square yard and compared that to the amount of rain. We were able to come up with all sorts of convincing statistics arguing that worms fell from the sky when it rained. Some of us were even beginning to believe what we had just shown until the teacher came up with words similar to those below:
     
  17. Slobray

    Slobray Yelm, WA Well-Known Member

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    I'm no scientist, actually far from it and I can't speak very intelligently on the correlation between drugs and higher risks of homicide and/or suicide. I can however speak on one incident where it makes me believe that there is a correlation between drugs and homicide and/or suicide.

    A couple years ago in my last unit, a coworker/pretty good friend went to the doctor for an ongoing condition (don't know what). He came back from an appointment and he mentioned that the doctor had changed is prescription. Two or three days later he came to me and asked me to come to his house and get all of his guns and secure them at my house. I asked him “why, what's up” and he stated that "ever since the doctor changed my prescription, I've been having thoughts about hurting myself and other people." I immediately did as he asked and told him to make an appointment with his doctor and to stop taking the medication. He got an emergency appointment that day and the doctor took him of those meds and in less than a week he was back to normal. I eventually gave him back his guns (a couple of months later) and he's been good to go ever since.

    From that experience I believe that some of the drugs doctors prescribe today can/may cause good people to go off the deep end and do something (homicide, suicide, violent behavior) that they would never do without the drugs.


    Ray
     
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  18. Heywood

    Heywood Prineville Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I will start off by saying. I do not sleep more than 1 to 2 hours per night unless I take some sort of prescription med. I was on ambian for 2 years and my wife did notice some behavioral changes as well as stating I was doing things at night without my knowledge. I am a gun nut and a tinkerer by nature so I had to stop that med. for fear of acting out of character or causing an accident. I tried to go without anything and lasted about one year, however everything in my life other than my job was on complete hold I would literally come home and sit on my bubblegum. (bubblegum ha ha very funny mods) I have since been on another med. that is used to treat depression (when taken in much higher doses) Which allows me about 3 solid hours of sleep a night. so I guess I do have a dog in this fight. I will say this study seems like a chicken verses egg situation. Are people taking prescription meds. More likely to go nuts? or are the meds more likely to make people go nuts?. I do not know. Probably a little bit of both. I can tell you though that not being able to sleep will make you nuttier than a fruitcake after about a month or two. And in my case taking meds is much better than the alternative.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  19. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    In general, I think this is a matter of conflation of the two subjects. The *pam and *pene drugs are generally anticonvulsant/seditive hypnotics, they are not the same class as anti-depressant drugs. The same thing applies to opium derived drugs. I would think the linking of these phenomenon is probably due either to the traffic in illicit drugs, or to other factors related to the reason this person was taking the drugs, chronic pain likely being a major factor.
     
  20. U201494

    U201494 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe wiping your asss causes all of these things, ever think about that?