Before reading take your BP meds.

Discussion in 'Northwest Fishing' started by oknow, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. EPS

    EPS
    Anacortes
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    Like I said before it you read the earlier post where I live ANACORTES WA once was the salmon capitol of the world and the salmon were all but wiped out they were using horses to pull Gill nets out of the water and they were not native they were white men from other countries but they did agree to stop and change there ways to save some fish LOL I'm sure there are people that have been fishing in the San Juan islands but it is not easy to catch a king salmon here
     
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  2. EPS

    EPS
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    And it's getting harder every year
     
  3. wired

    wired
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    Possible solution? The situation is that a treaty was signed by both parties to retain 50% of the catch each. Then one side of the treaty completely destroyed the habitat of the salmon by building dams and putting more settlement into the area than the salmon habitat could handle. They got it to the point where the only way to keep the salmon from going extinct was to build hatcheries and artificially stock the fishery with farm raised salmon smolts. Its pretty obvious that the side that destroyed the habitat should either restore the habitat to pre treaty levels or they should abandon the treaty framework and leave the fishery management and use solely to the tribes.
    I don't know how much you know about reservations but no one is forced to live anywhere. I work on the Yakama reservation and its rare that I see an Indian on the reservation. I see a sh!tload of Mexicans thats for sure because its some of the most productive farmland in the northern US and they hire people to work it for them and thats what Mexicans do. To be honest I cant think of any tribes in Washington that arent doing pretty good for themselves but thats not the point. The point is that they have a contract with the US government in the form of a treaty that the US Government has all but abrogated. Complaining about the tribes keeping more than their share without proof they are actually doing that is stupid and in any case their share would be orders of magnitude more had the other party to the treaty not destroyed the salmons habitat .

    That is not a liberal point of view. If anything it is the MOST REPUBLICAN of all views. Honor your commitments! The Puget Sound tribes have a 160 year old contract with the United States. They are not getting special rights. They have their own treaty rights codified by US law that the US is screwing them on. When the US Government writes a treaty with any sovereign nation that becomes the US law until it is changed . Unless the Native governments have renegotiated a treaty the US is bound by law to uphold that treaty. Promising half a resource and then destroying almost all of it is not upholding the spirit of the treaty.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  4. wired

    wired
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    Pretty sure those EO's are going to go away pretty soon.
     
  5. bbbass

    bbbass
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    Agree that we created a problem when we signed treaties into perpetuity and maintained Native tribes as sovereign. I worked at a native lumber mill in Ariz for awhile and I can tell you that the natives there hate whitey. Oh, they will hire us but other than that they don't want us around. We, white folks, created this situation. But it is high time to renegotiate the treaties and start integrating natives into the American culture. This bit of Balkanization of America into different tribes is not going to be workable. Yes, keep your culture but be American first... great melting pot!
     
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  6. wired

    wired
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    America never has been a melting pot.
     
  7. bbbass

    bbbass
    La Grande
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    Expand on that please.
     
  8. wired

    wired
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    America has melted Europeans together. You pretty much left your ethnicity at the door at Ellis Island. Ignoring all the other groups that didnt get melted in you have the native tribes that didnt and still don't want to melt in. We signed treaties with those tribes in exchange for land and peace. We got both and have the legal and moral obligation to honor the treaties.
     
  9. bbbass

    bbbass
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    Expand on that please.
    I'm not the person that said we shouldn't honor the treaties.
     
  10. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim
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    Tis why there is an ignore button for these types, I will not listen to their drivel....;)
     
  11. wired

    wired
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    There is nothing liberal about expecting the US Government to fulfill its contractual obligations under a 160 year old treaty with a semi sovereign state.
     
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  12. wired

    wired
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    "But it is high time to renegotiate the treaties and start integrating natives into the American culture."

    How is that honoring the treaties with the Indian Nations exactly?

    Renegotiating treaties isnt going to end up anywhere near how you want it to BTW. This isnt 1854 and the tribes arent signing treaties with muskets pointed at their heads any more. For the last 50 years they have been lawyering up pretty hard and have won significant court cases and pulled in billions from the federal government based on the existing one sided treaties. Renegotiating the Treaty of Medicine Creek would be a damned fool thing to do. Read that treaty and see if you don't think they could do a little bit better this time around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
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  13. EPS

    EPS
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    I'm done talking bout this call me when the end is near
     
  14. bbbass

    bbbass
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    Naw... we have the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla here. They ceded millions of acres of land in their treaty.

    Whoever came up with the idea of having sovereign nations inside the geographic boundaries was shortsighted IMO. Now we should have little countries for Syrians, Somalis, African-Americans, etc. And we definitely should give California back to Mexico... let them deal with it.

    Nuclear treaty with Iran is just as foolish. Trade the thought of security now for assured problems in ten years. Assinine!!!
     
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  15. cmica

    cmica
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    I got a plan, just need to get a hold of trump. revoke their treaty and tll em suck it up buttercup, its the 21 century, I didn't kill your folks. Get with the time you greedy f*cks
     
  16. osprey

    osprey
    Wetstern WA
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    Pretty easy for all parties involved to sit here and point fingers as we all enjoy the spoils of a modern world. Like cheap power from the dams providing power for the casinos. Yes mistakes have been made but we are all in this together and we will need cooperation on all sides to come up with solutions. The Super citizen thing is not working out and needs to go away, yet we continue to frequent the casinos giving them money to sue us over everything. Time to wake up people and see it for what it is. I am done with this thread as well.
     
  17. BlackRyder

    BlackRyder
    Edmonds
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    I really wish I had proof but I know for a fact that the tribes are lying about this.
    Last July/September I was in neah bay checking a surf spot just outside the main town area. As I got out of my car I noticed (kind of hard to miss it, really) a huge pile of gutted, discarded coho (probably just the eggs were taken). Seriously, there were around 200 salmon just left there in a heap. All of them coho. I really wish I had taken a picture but I was honestly just so dismayed by the sight that I didn't think to do so.
    The next week I was out there again, and I stopped in to see the smoked salmon guy. I bought a few pieces from him, asked him how their fishing had been going so far and what type of salmon I was about to eat. He told me, "coho", and we chuckled commiseratively, as we had both just been b!tchung about the fishing regs. (I'm not trying to tattle or anything, and I will freely admit that I ate and enjoyed it). I'm not sure if the Makah Tribe is included in the puget sound tribal fishing report, but it stands to reason that they weren't the only ones out there catching coho. Especially since they use "selective" gill nets.
    Bummer.
     
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  18. EPS

    EPS
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    I believe you because I have been to Neah bay in my brother inlaw 's boat where the tribe boats are allowed to fish in the straight of Juan de fuca and others are not and they have no size limit they keep and kill every fish they catch and the tribe pays them for it COMPLETELY B.S.
     
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  19. jsparks747

    jsparks747
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    Yeah... I am typing this on my Iipad and have had quite a few close calls.
    *IPad dangit. (Not purposeful)
     
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  20. coastal steelheader

    coastal steelheader
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    This is one of the reason I and quite a few others will be sitting 2017 out and by not buying a license as a protest to the WDFW. There is probably going to be something organized up and rolling this spring and people are hoping that WDFW gets the message.
     
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