Been pondering black powder

[pinne65]

for a while. I guess I could load 45 Colt black powder cartridges in my Ruger super redhawk. But it doesn't feel quite right. The civil war era look appeals more to me. But I'm more or less clueless on the matter. Are these any good: Black Powder Revolvers or just junk?

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[GOG]

The Pietta's are pretty good pistols for the price. I had one of the .44's and my buddy has a .44 and a .36 that we bought at the same time. All three were/are good pistols.

Do you know much about black powder?

 

[Alexx1401]

for a while. I guess I could load 45 Colt black powder cartridges in my Ruger super redhawk. But it doesn't feel quite right. The civil war era look appeals more to me. But I'm more or less clueless on the matter. Are these any good: Black Powder Revolvers or just junk?

It's fun but messy. The imported copies work fine. The Remington copies are a little easier to be accurate with especially if you get one with adj sights. When I was playing with them I finally ended up with a couple of the ones Ruger used to make. They stopped as far as I know but are of course still sold used. If you are not sure you want to invest that much buy one of the imported ones to play with and see.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

If you are interested in The American Civil War and like to be historically correct...stay away from the Brass framed "Navy revolvers" in .44 caliber...they never existed ...sellers ad copy notwithstanding...
( Yes the Confederacy had some brass framed revolvers...the ones in the ad are not copies of any of those )

As far as quality of the revolvers go...Pietta has come along way and the revolvers that I have seen and shot lately by them are good looking and excellent shooters...once you find the load the revolver likes.
Uberti also makes several good copes as well...

Again to add...if you are looking for a line for line copy of a Colt or Remington revolver or for you Confedrerates out there... a Dance or Leech & Rigdon Revolver...then they aren't it.
( Not to say that the Confederacy did not use Colt revolvers...'casue they did... )

But if you want a fun and hard hitting revolver that catches the flavor of the past..both Pietta and Uberti revolvers are worth a look and owning...
Both Pietta and Uberti revolvers are made from quality materials and have great to very fine workmanship , depending on the model.

If you get one...Please do not hesitate to contact me...I'll be happy to help you with load data and "The care and Feeding" of your black powder firearm...
Andy

 

[tac]

If you get one...Please do not hesitate to contact me...I'll be happy to help you with load data and "The care and Feeding" of your black powder firearm...
Andy

...or me.

tac

 

[tac]

for a while. I guess I could load 45 Colt black powder cartridges in my Ruger super redhawk. But it doesn't feel quite right. The civil war era look appeals more to me. But I'm more or less clueless on the matter. Are these any good: Black Powder Revolvers or just junk?

When the original Colt SAA came out there was NOTHING else other than black powder. The slightly-later .44-40 had a compressed load of 40gr of FPP, and THAT was a hitter for sure, being used in rifles and carbines of the day, as well as the revolvers.

95% of all modern BP replicas are made in Iddly by Uberti, Pedersoli or Pietta - all are reasonably priced, and Pietta even makes a couple in stainless steel with 'target sights - a total waste IMO. If you want the VERY best replication of the New Model Army Remington, then Hege/Feinwerkbau of Germany make it, but be rich - they are around $1800 or so.

For those with difficultiy in finding the Holy Black, there are a number of substitutes, namely Hodgdons Pyrodex or Triple 7 - there are a couple of others around, but these dominate the market. Entering into the world of black powder shooting is a guaranteed eye-opener, not just for the primitive technology, but the knowledge that THIS is ALL there was at the time...and look what we did with it!

tac

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I would argue that the technology was far from primitive...And I have never had good luck with triple 7...but such comments are best suited to a different thread...

But back to the OP...Black powder revolvers are fun and can be a eye opener for sure as tac said...
Andy

 

[pinne65]

Thanks everybody for the input!

I don't know much about black powder. I have shot my buddies muzzle loader rifle and revolver A couple of times. But he doesn't have them any more.

I don't need to be historically accurate. I just like the look of the civil war models. And I'm fine with using the modern substitutes for real black powder if it's easier to clean and smokes as much or more

 

[tac]

By the standards of today, the technology was primitive, that's why shooting of BP arms is classed as 'primitive'.

Even in the USA there are dealers who do not hold BP, but DO hold stocks of subs.

A couple of things to reinforce, though, before we start getting seriously picky -

NEVER shoot any propellant except true black powder or one of the subs in a BP revolver or pistol, even long arm. Note that SOME modern replications of BP cartridge-firing long arms ARE proofed to shoot EQUIVALENT nitro loads, but not handguns. I shoot a 60gr load of FFg [that's the way of measuring the grade of the powder in physical grain size] in my Winchester High Wall rifle, and 32gr of H4198 for the nitro load. They both shoot to the same POA and withing 20 fps of each other - one is used in a BP-only match, and the other ain't.

Handguns are proofed for BP only, and clearly show it by the proof stamps. All are proofed in the same place - the National Proof House of Italy in Gardone Val Trompia - and will have the words BLACK POWDER ONLY stamped on the barrel. As well, you'll see a square box with the letters PN - Pulvero nero [black powder in Eyetalian]

Always wear eye protection when shooting a BP firearm - the caps can and do fragment, and will readily cause an infectious injury to the unwary eyeball. These days they make a very convincing rubber ear or nose, but have failed dismally coming up with a good rubber eyeball.

To the OP - find somebody who is already a BP shooter [how far do you live from Andy? No use looking at me, I live just this side of Belgium] and get a session with them. A couple of folks to watch on Youtube -

Mike Beliveau [duellist1954], the definitive all-round BP guy - in every sense of the word.

Bálasz Németh - capandball - THE main man in Hungary, a hoot to watch and to learn from.

Also, in long arms - murpheysmuskets

And get ahold of the latest version of the Lyman BP handbook, best few dollars you will ever have spent.

tac

 

[tac]

The Colt .36cal Navy revolver is probaly THE most beautiful handgun of its era - some say, of all time.....who am I to argue?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

By the standards of today, the technology was primitive, that's why shooting of BP arms is classed as 'primitive'.

Primitive means less developed or less advanced...
The skill that is needed to learn how to make and shoot muzzleloaders is a "learned" or highly developed skill and art.
The modern machines that laser engrave or cut out a stock...the gadgets that do the work for you while you are shooting can keep you from learning a skill or art...they are primitive in my eyes....

I get that my view is at odds with just about everyone..and I am fine with that.

As for modern substitutes being cleaner...your guns will still need to cleaned with a blackpodwer solvent first...I like hot soapy water...then cleaned like a modern gun...it really isn't the chore that internet lore can make it out to be.
Andy

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Both of these firearms fall under the class of Trade Guns...as in guns made for the fur trade.
Generally this class of firearms was of basic , solid quality...and generally a no frills gun...
Of course there are exceptions...
Nothing primitive here in construction or use...hand done work by a skilled artisan...
Plus the learned skill of finding the right load to use ...
Andy

 

[RVTECH]

Yep - I really enjoy shooting my .36 ASM Navy. And the accuracy may surprise you. I have 'convinced' more than a few of this while out shooting.
Ditto on the cleaning - BP subs are a BIT cleaner but does not equate into any less effort or increased time after shooting for cleaning which like Andy said not near as involved as some report.

 

[tac]

My use of the word primitive is intended to mean the technology employed in the manufacture of the time - in spite of it often being the best there was - rather than the man-skills needful in the shooting.

Can we move on from this, please, or else we'll be arguing all day.

tac