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Bedding problem? tell me what to look for please

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by mjbskwim, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I bought this nice...looking... Rem 700 "Long Range" rifle. 7mm rem mag.
    Now I have shot this thing about 60-70 rounds and I get some weird groups
    I have used factory ammo thus far to make sure it was worth keeping. And I can touch hole with it,then move 1 inch off and touch holes
    I don't move POA but the gun moves POI.
    o the local GS says it sounds like a bedding issue. Maybe shooting 2 holes then moving the action over and 2 more touch.
    I took the gun apart and everything seems to look real good. No high spots and the wear marks look as equal as could be asked for.
    What am I looking for?
    This gun has potential and I want to wring it out of it
     
  2. Oregonhunter5

    Oregonhunter5 2C IDAHO Well-Known Member

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    How fast are you shooting? Meaning how long between each shot?
    Could be a weird barrel.
     
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  3. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    What's the current bedding look like? Can the action move at all when it's fully seated, but not tightened down?

    Is the barrel floated or also bedded?

    Sorry allot of questions...
     
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  4. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I might be tempted to check the scope and mounts as well. That would be my first place. Then I would check the floating of the barrel. If the stock isn't stiff, you might be getting flex in the stock. If the stock flexes and touches the barrel on certain shots, you can get poi shifts.

    If the barrel is not well floated and is touching, that could also cause your issue. If it's supposed to be floated and isn't done right, then it can cause issues. If it's not supposed to be floated and isn't done right, that can cause issues as well. I have a .300 wby that is full length bedded that shoots ragged holes. I guess the point is whatever the builder tried to do, if he did it wrong it could be causing your issues, but I'd look for simpler solutions first.
     
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  5. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts United States Well-Known Member

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    Check to see if your mag box is pinched between the bottom of the action and the bottom metal frame. It can result in the dreaded two grouper.

    If its a consistent two grouper, you can almost eliminate scope or mounts because it would work itself completely loose and you'd be all over the place.

    A thin cardboard shim can be used as a diagnostic by lifting the action up a bit.
     
  6. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    This is a factory "long range" rifle from Remington,with a HR precision stock.
    The barrel is floated enough for regular paper,so a dollar will fit nicely. The rest of the stock and barrel look like pretty even wear. Nothing is rubbing on one side more than the other
    Never mind... I just dropped the action and broke the trigger off:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
    And dented the side of the scope eye piece. Damn tile floor. I was trying to check the movement without tightening it and was putting the bottom metal on....then the clutz came out in me.

    Any way.The shots wee spaced out.But it's 20-30 out and the barrel keeps cool. Never even hot at all.Wondered if that could be part of it.A couple guys keep their guns in the truck while waiting
    So,I guess a Timney is what's up this week:confused:
     
  7. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    BTW thanks for the responses
    Mike
     
  8. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    So how was the rest of your night? :confused:
     
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  9. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    "Diablo" with Clint Eastwood's son was OK. Nothing great but he's about as good as his dad. Just don't ask them to say much
    Dinner was good
    :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
    Wasn't what I wanted but a Timney isn't too much to do. Scope is fine. I bumped it and shook it. Crosshairs are solid
    I'm going to bed and cry like a beotch:(
     
  10. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts United States Well-Known Member

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    Those xmark triggers are garbage anyway
     
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  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Can't even find the trigger. Broke off and hid someplace,little basterge
    I'll check out the bottom metal fit tomorrow.
    I'm in agreement with the scope mount theory. Scope is tight and if it was bad the POI would be all over.
     
  12. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    What make/model scope do you have on this rifle? Is it a quality scope? Will it shoot a box when tested?

    Did you mount it? If so did you degrease and lock tight blue all fasteners?

    If not. Take it all back apart and check everything. Then put it back together. So you know it's right.

    Then you can use that fancy new trigger with confidence! :D
     
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  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    It's a Leupold VX3 and I haven't actually 'boxed' it on any gun and I'm not sure it didn't take any blows in my accident last year,on the way over here. I did locktite the base but not the rings at all. I move thing around so I don't locktite those. But I'm confident the scope is on there solid
    And I am thinking of getting a 6-24 scope for it anyway,so this gun may wait in the safe for a little longer
    The Leupold may *WILL* end up on my 17hmr so I can see if it's OK.I have a cheapo ,well, crapo scope on that now and I know the gun shoots good enough to warrant a good scope.And heck,the I've had the luppy on a few guns since I bought it so it's more than paid for
     
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  14. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    The only way that there would be a shift is if the aluminum bedding in the HS Precision stock was dramatically messed up or broken. If everything is tightened down, there should not be a shift. Usually the recoil lug on the 700s fits pretty snug in the HS Precisions aluminum bedding. Once tightened, it should not move.

    A few questions?

    What factory ammo are you using? Some factory ammo I have shot will have some minor shifts in POI.

    Did you push your scope rings forward to touch the base? If the rings are not pushed forward to the base it could case a shift under recoil.

    What type of rest are you using? Bipod, bags? Perhaps the bipod is causing the shift?

    Thats all I can think of, unless there was a drastic change in temperature or air conditions between shots.
     
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  15. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    One other thing.

    I have a 300 win mag that went from a 1'' gun to a six inch gun after the barrel was badly copper fouled. [Same hunting rifle for 21 years] Scared me bad!
    I scrubbed the crud out of it with a copper solvent. Copper flakes and green solvent poured out of that barrel!

    It returned to a 1'' gun.

    Did the same to my friends $5000 Blauser [Probably spelled that wrong?] in .300 Weatherby.
    Fixed it up as well.

    May be all it needs? And may be the reason the last owner sold it? :s0092:
    Can you see copper in the rifling's when you look down the barrel at an angle from the muzzle end? Look close! o_O

    Don't forget to chase copper solvent with normal solvent. That copper solvent can eat your barrel if not completely removed. Or left in the barrel too long. ;)
     
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  16. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    This started life as a Rem 700 Long Range. 300 win mag
    Full length alum bedding block. Action was still able to move around about .025 forward and back, and about .015 side to side. Even with the muzzle break installed, and the action bolts torqued down properly, I would get flyers.
    Brownells steel bed kit and 12 hours later no more movement! image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  17. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts United States Well-Known Member

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    Remington actions are round and they use washer style recoil ligs rather than integral lugs like a Winchester. Round action + washer recoil lug = stock "bedding" blocks that have some slop built into them. You'll want to bed it. Just dont glue it together.
     
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  18. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I always start with Hornady. I have had best luck with accuracy with Hornady.***
    I did not push the scope rings forward but I can see,I think,what that would do. Maybe widen them out so they are against each side of the mount grooves?
    I am using a plastic bench rest stand that has a tripod base and a threaded riser with a saddle on top.And of course my stocking hat. Wool:D
    Like this only plastic http://www.midwayusa.com/product/840428/remington-shot-saver-front-shooting-rest
    I have cleaned it between sessions at the range,so no more than 20 rounds thru it at a time before cleaning
    Maybe I didn't break it in right?
    This is a brand new gun BTW
    This stock is glass,with aluminum under the rear safety tang,the trigger area and front pillar.
    Everywhere it touches looks fairy even on both the barrel and aluminum bedding
    Oh,as for temperature ,it's usually around 25 or so out and the barrel never feels like it's been shot. So I am almost always shooting a cold bore
    I'll check into this also
    Thanks again guys,I'll be on you tube looking at bedding vids today it looks like
    *** with other guns
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  19. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts United States Well-Known Member

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    As long as you did this during break-in, you're fine. PS, barrel break-in rituals can be an amazing display of imagination....

     
  20. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna throw this out there cause I have seen it more then once on a Factory Rem 700.
    Headspace, having looked at all the responses it tell me maybe there is something not right there at the space. Maybe I am wrong but its starting to sound like it might be internal chamber barrel related.
     
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