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Bear defense

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Kimber Custom, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    I'm heading Grizzly country. I intend to take all the necessary precautions like keeping the dog on a leash, packing up the food every night and maybe even a can of bear spray.

    If I do have an encounter and have to use my 12G; do you suggest Slugs or Buckshot? If buckshot what size?

    Is there any value in a warning shot to scare it away or will that just make em mad?
     
  2. 2506

    2506 Seattle Well-Known Member

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  3. JUSTIficatioN

    JUSTIficatioN Seattle, Wa Member

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    I've been told a couple rounds of 00 buck and then dear slugs after that. Makes sense to me, 00 buck for it's face and dear slugs for vital organs (head and heart).
     
  4. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Thanks, I read the document. I noticed two things:

    "investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time."

    Of those who used a firearm how many were a .45 or less using personal defense rounds intended to stop people.

    "During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries."

    I wish they would quantify 'most of the time'. I tend to think of these reports being written by those who are more uncomfortable with encountering somene with a shotgun than encountering a bear who is only doing what God made him to do and you can't blame the bear for looking for food because the evil humans have.... sorry; I'll stop there.

    I'll bring bear spray but this site tends toward the more prepared (dare I say paranoid :D) (self included) mind. I'm planning for a worst case scenario.

    Perhaps one more step on the force continuum could be one of those air horn cans.
     
  5. tbtravis

    tbtravis SW WA Member

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    Don't forget to make noise as you travel, and be absolutely sanitary about food odors. I wouldn't cook near camp or sleep in clothes you cooked in.
    Have a blast!

    tbt
     
  6. 2506

    2506 Seattle Well-Known Member

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    I picked up on the same thing. I always read reports like these thinking: "What behavior is US Fish&Game trying to modify?" Mostly, they keep the granola eaters happy by telling everyone to use the non-lethal method. Can you imagine the uproar if what they said was: If you choose to use a firearm, make it a 12-gauge pump and use slugs? PETA, Humane Society, Hollywood, and every hippie in America would froth at the mouth.
     
  7. 2506

    2506 Seattle Well-Known Member

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  8. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    you want the best penetration you can get.. bears' vitals are deep, and nothing stops, be it human or berserk animal, unless you punch out something vital.

    slugs have great penetration.. buckshot is about the same as a 115gr 9mm FMJ- decent penetration in humans, but not gonna be nearly as effective with bear.

    personally, i'm always with high capacity carbine. screw 5 shots, and screw pistols, in the woods.
     
  9. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Most Alaska guides will tell you the best Grizzly defense firearm is a 12ga loaded with slugs. All-copper slugs are a somewhat recent development that increases penetration over the lead "Brenneke" type.

    As for pepper spray, the colloquial wisdom in Alaska is this:

    Q: "Know how to tell Black Bear droppings from Grizzly Bear droppings?"

    A: "Grizzly bear droppings have little pieces of pepper spray cans in them."

    And, as for handguns, here's this:

    Alaska guide observes his dude upacking his duffel in hunt camp, part of which is a handgun. Guide asks to see it, Dude looks on for approval, and Guide asks, "What's this for?"

    Dude replies, "That's in case we run into a Grizzly!"

    Guide scratches his whiskers and advises, "Nice gun, but if you're carrying it for Grizzlies, ya better file off the front sight."

    Dude is confused for a moment, then a light bulb goes off in his mind, and he knows he's grasped the concept, saying, "Oh, yeah!, So it comes out of the holster quicker, right?"

    Guide says, "Nope. So when the Grizzly takes it away from you and crams it up your behind, it don't hurt so much."
     
  10. cetme

    cetme oregon city Member

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    great description !! :laugh:
     
  11. sir-kind78

    sir-kind78 Vancouver WA Member

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    Any one seen the Bear Guy movie?...

    Idiot forgot all guns even bear spray and was staying too late in the season, even films his demise! Worst part is this idiot brought his girlfriend, who spent 20 min fighting the bear for his dead body. She was scared and was ending the relationship upon return to civilization.

    As a native american from a family that honors the bear as our family protector, we avoid ALL contact. No feeding, petting, or getting closer than we can help it.


    Bears are very smart, but they live in a different world. They don't respect police, they couldn't care if your armed, and generally think your very sweet and tasty.

    Brown bears are easier to deal with just more shocking cause of the size!

    Black bears are more curious and aggressive and can CLIMB! At least you can out climb a grizzly, I know I have problems at my camp the past 2 years.

    Bears dont blink at 9mm, I tossed 2 rounds FMJ a couple inches away from his knee,,,, nothing not even a twitch.

    You want to avoid bears?... travel with a partner (not to be sexist but 2 males are a bigger threat than a male and a female), carry long guns and extra mags in addition to your pistol (anything small gets the pistol big stuff gets the long gun), CRASH around whistle RADIO!!! IPOD?!? conversations that are heated and loud, NO DRINKING!, shoot alot as well!, packaged low smell bland food in smell proof packaging no beef jerky no lunchmeats or raw meat, and last and least STAND IN THE SMOKE OF YOUR FIRE!

    Forget the bear spray it might blind you and leave you a free lunch, I call it Tabasco Sauce for DA Bear.

    The comment earlier about cans in bearscat are true and I have heard that they dont mind it very much at all. Makes you a tastier and very blind target.

    Oh and by the way Bear Spray has LESS OC than PD sprays that may or may not contain CS tear gas!

    Big revolvers and big guns for bear country, king of the pile in CQB forest is and always will be 12 gauge slugs (I like the copper prefragmented dumdum slug mean!) forget any 00 buck for deer. (come on "buck" ring a bell?... its for shooting deer thin skin easy meat, bear is heavy built tank need artillery to take it apart.)

    Or centerfire magnum .30 cal + question is how big can you carry?...

    Bear camp load out is .30+centerfire or 12 gauge for each person +whatever personal poodleshooter you want to weigh yourself down with. No hotsauce for the bears, NO food other than cliff bars/candy, eat MASSIVELY in the previous couple days before departing.

    Climb away from a grizzly, stand your ground and shoot a black bear.

    Oh and your in his home its his advantage, just remember that next time your out there.
     
  12. Quackerbacker

    Quackerbacker Springfield, OR Active Member

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    Those statistics re: bear spray are from a pretty questionable source.

    I don't worry about black bears. Statistically they rank about 1,000th on the list of what will hurt you in the Oregon woods right below being hit by a meteorite.

    Having said that, i always carry 13rds of dpx at the ready when i'm in the woods. It's just a comfort measure.
     
  13. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Sir-Kind is very right on here... You want big gun, with bullets that go deep. Slugs, lots of them. Those sabot-type slugs give you a bit more velocity, and a slightly reduced cross section which may give you deeper penetration than the "rifled slugs". I might also suggest rifles with calibers that end in "win-mag", "rigby" or "lott". For the big-bore rifles, barnes solids, or hard cast are your friends. For the smaller stuff, hornady GMX, barnes solids or other heavily constructed "big game" bullets. Chances are, if you encounter an agressive bear charging, you may only get one or two shots, and they're going to be close range, meaning all that fancy bullet construction is going to tear the bullet apart before it gets deep enough to damage something.

    I spend a lot of time hunting wild pigs in the central valley, some of these things get into the 300+ lb range. Smaller than a grizzly, but will ruin your day just the same. Usually one shot kill to the center body cavity is required for a knock-out. .358 winchester has been a real performer over the years.
     
  14. sir-kind78

    sir-kind78 Vancouver WA Member

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    personally I believe that a bear is alot more likely to be around the area then a meteorite

    chances are that more people die every year from bears than the sky falling

    but if you really want to talk out there how is it that I can step on deer sit across the fire from bears and have elk stand up right next to me and the rest of you have problems getting your buck?

    just cause you cant see them doesn't mean that they arn't there trust me they are watching you for a free meal (you?...)
     
  15. Quackerbacker

    Quackerbacker Springfield, OR Active Member

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    Oh they're there alright. I've had numerous encounters. They are pretty harmless though. Every year humans have millions of encounters with black bears. Injuries are few and fatalaties extremely rare and of those injuries and fatalities the vast majority are due to the humans being stupid.

    I've yet to see a black bear that didn't run when chased by a human.

    You are more likely to be raped to death by a strikingingly beautiful swedish hiker than killed by a black bear.

    Seriously though, i think about 15 people were killed by black bears in the last decade in all of North America. In contrast, I think we average about 25 fatal dog attacks in the US alone every YEAR.

    I don't take bears lightly, they are powerful animals and sows with cubs and old grumpy bears can be dangerous, but i don't spend an undue amount of worry when i'm many many times more likely to die from a fall or from lightning or a human being when in the woods.
     
  16. tlfreek

    tlfreek Vancouver WA Active Member

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    and lets not forget about hamster attacks. Those seemingly harmless creatures can also ruin your day. but instead of a nice magnum round I use one of those wheels they run in - seems pretty effective.:thumbup:
     
  17. SDR

    SDR Clackamas County, Oregon Silver Vendor Silver Vendor

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    grizzly.jpg

    How many have the kuhona's to face a thousand pounds of hungry muscle and teeth...
    I spent six years in AK in the oil fields and dealt with these absolute awesome creatures... Most people that have no clue, can talk big up until the moment of FTF... Education about these guys will save your life, Most internet Info is crap...

    grizzly-1.jpg
     
  18. Celtic Armory

    Celtic Armory Port Orchard, WA Member

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    Any time I'm in the mountains, I take both my .45 and my can of bear spray. I figure if I run into a black or brown and they don't run when I act bigger than them, I can spray them. If they charge or act more aggressive then I can take them with 13 rounds of .45ACP. I don't think we have Griz in my AO. They are in the mountains further east and north.
     
  19. Decker

    Decker My house Active Member

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    I see your bear, and raise you a raccoon!

    raccoonqgi.jpg

    :laugh:

    -d
     
  20. freeagent

    freeagent The Gorge, WA Member

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    Black bears are big dogs, which is not to say they can't be dangerous or unpredictable. Still, they are more likely to run than fight, and unlikely to stalk you like a big cat. Understand dogs and you have black bears covered.

    On the other hand, a griz is a big furry T-Rex.