Bayer to pull Glyphosate (Roundup) from U.S. Lawn and Garden Markets

[OldTengu]

YEP!! An amazing number of people who love meat, really think it comes in those cute little packages in the store. If they ever see a factory farm they are shocked. Its like where the hell did you think it came from? I grew up in a rural area where there were a LOT of cattle raised for eating. They were often almost treated like pets but of course they were being raised to kill and eat. To get this stuff made as cheap as possible of course is not pretty. Most have no idea how most food is handled and processed too. Having seen a lot of it I have to just not think about it to eat what comes out of cans and jars.

I had a coworker who formerly worked at a Tyson plant in Colorado, and explained that it was so humid in the processing areas that he and a few others would spend their whole shift mopping the ceiling to keep the dirty condensation from raining onto the chicken. The high heat was apparently from the incinerators used to burn the bones.

 

[Lennie]

The world's food consumer votes for industrial sized ag operations with their wallet. Then the same consumer is upset when he sees what he voted for.

 

[The Heretic]

Bayer is not the only producer of Glyphosate. I never buy that brand of glyphosate because it is so expensive and weak in the consumer packaging - usually somewhere between 2-5%. I buy the "generic" brand that is 40%+, and I usually mix it with a bit of Crossbow and some diesel.

I spot spray on brambles, thistles, alder and maple.

 

[bigbearbear]

Bayer is not the only producer of Glyphosate. I never buy that brand of glyphosate because it is so expensive and weak in the consumer packaging - usually somewhere between 2-5%. I buy the "generic" brand that is 40%+, and I usually mix it with a bit of Crossbow and some diesel.

I spot spray on brambles, thistles, alder and maple.

You might get better performance if you use a water based surfactant instead of diesel due to the water content in glyphosate, or just use Crossbow alone with diesel. I typically use this cheap surfactant from Tractor Supply and it works well across most water based herbicides for me: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/farmworks-80-20-surfactant-1-gal?cm_vc=-10005

My neighbor's unmanaged yard has a maple tree stump that is sprouting though and I don't want it regrowing and threatening my fence/property, I might get myself a high concentration bottle of triclopyr and mix it with diesel and apply it on that maple.

 

[Cavedweller]

You might get better performance if you use a water based surfactant instead of diesel due to the water content in glyphosate, or just use Crossbow alone with diesel. I typically use this cheap surfactant from Tractor Supply and it works well across most water based herbicides for me: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/farmworks-80-20-surfactant-1-gal?cm_vc=-10005

My neighbor's unmanaged yard has a maple tree stump that is sprouting though and I don't want it regrowing and threatening my fence/property, I might get myself a high concentration bottle of triclopyr and mix it with diesel and apply it on that maple.

The Roundup concentrate is labeled for application to stumps at full strength.

 

[The Heretic]

The Roundup concentrate is labeled for application to stumps at full strength.

From what I have heard - third hand (neighbor talked to pro sprayer), Crossbow is added to glyphosate to deal with woody plants, such as maple/alder regrowth. The mix I use seems to work for me with just about anything I use it on.

 

[RicInOR]

What do you use on Blackberries (and similar) ?

 

[Alexx1401]

What do you use on Blackberries (and similar) ?

I have LONG used RoundUp on them. Stuff kills hell out of them and leaves nothing behind in the ground. This is good and bad I guess. Since they will easily start to come back if I am not going to do something else where they were but, still like that I can plant other stuff there if I want. When stuff I don't want comes back I just spray it again.

 

[The Heretic]

What do you use on Blackberries (and similar) ?

I have had a LOT of brambles - Himalayan blackberries. First I mostly cut them down with my flail mower - some I used a dozer on (the huge mounds of them). Then, since some percentage of the bushes return, I spray what comes up out of the ground. This way I use less herbicide and it is more targeted. I use my mixture of glyphosate/crossbow and diesel. Spray on a hot day, that way the herbicide is absorbed by the vegetation. Wait a couple weeks, then spray again on anything that is still healthy.

Vinegar can work, especially if you get the stronger concentrate (vinegar bought in a grocery store is only 4-5%, you can get 20-75% online) - I use vinegar on the moss/etc. that grows on my asphalt driveway, but it isn't as effective on other vegetation.

I have gotten rid of most of them, but some keep trying to come back, so every year I spray the individual vines that try to come back to keep it under control.

 

[Lennie]

Then, since some percentage of the bushes return, I spray what comes up out of the ground. This way I use less herbicide and it is more targeted. I use my mixture of glyphosate/crossbow and diesel. Spray on a hot day, that way the herbicide is absorbed by the vegetation. Wait a couple weeks, then spray again on anything that is still healthy.

I feel there are better options than diesel.

Ag guys often use the term "sticker" to describe surficants they add to their spray mixes. Here us a good article on them

Using Spray Adjuvants to Increase Herbicide Effectiveness

Spray adjuvants are added to herbicides to increase its effectiveness. Find out what can be added to herbicides so they work better.

www.lawn-care-academy.com

I use a simple home made sticker. Dish soap, liquid-Joy or Dawn or similar. I use a good squirt per gallon of water. Breaks the water tension and helps break wax on leaves. You are using diesel to break the water tension, however I have found that diesel will not help with water tension.

I also add two teaspoons of water soluble ammonium sulfate per gallon of mix. This product can be found at places like Simplot or commercial ag spray outlets. For whatever reason, this increases the plants intake of herbicides. Do not use fertilizer grade ammonium sulfate.

Ammonium sulfate brings out the best in glyphosate spray

OMAHA (DTN)--Most commercial applicators add ammonium sulfate (AMS) to spray water before adding glyphosate so growers will get the best result from their glyphosate product.

m.hpj.com

 

[Cavedweller]

What do you use on Blackberries (and similar) ?

Roundup is effective on blackberries if you hit them early when new growth is vigorous and light green. However, later in the season when leaves are dark green or on mature vines in established thickets it can take 2 or 3 applications to really kill the whole plant. On such thickets I've had better luck with Ortho brush killer:

Ortho 16 oz. Poison Ivy and Tough Brush Killer Concentrate 0474010

Ortho MAX Poison Ivy and Tough Brush Killer Concentrate kills over 60 types of tough brush and weeds. This product is specially formulated to kill the toughest brush weeds, including poison ivy, poison

www.homedepot.com

 

[Cavedweller]

I use my mixture of glyphosate/crossbow

What proportions do you use?

I use vinegar on the moss/etc. that grows on my asphalt driveway,

Have you tried baking soda? My neighbor turned me onto that stuff for moss control on hard surfaces and it works like a charm. Get it at Winco where it's about half the price they sell it for at Fred Meyer and it's very economical. Sprinkle it on lightly as evenly as you can for multi-season control.

 

[The Heretic]

What proportions do you use?

About half a gallon of glyphosate 40%, a few ounces of crossbow, a gallon of water, half a gallon of diesel.

 

[The Heretic]

What proportions do you use?

Have you tried baking soda? My neighbor turned me onto that stuff for moss control on hard surfaces and it works like a charm. Get it at Winco where it's about half the price they sell it for at Fred Meyer and it's very economical. Sprinkle it on lightly as evenly as you can for multi-season control.

Acid (vinegar) or base (soda) - either disturbs the Ph on the moss and kills it.

 

[bigbearbear]

What do you use on Blackberries (and similar) ?

Blackberry is an interesting plant, and I took an interest in it because my neighbor's yard is basically wild land choked full of blackberry and they pushes against my fence and encroaches my front yard too. So I've been reading/watching on on this plant and how to control it.

Here's a very good video about blackberry and what you can use:

Summary:
Blackberry is a perennial, meaning it will keep coming back until you kill it totally. The behavior of this plant can also make your application of herbicide ineffective due to its life cycle. In spring, when many people love spraying down weeds, the blackberry is utilizing all the energy stored in its roots and pushing it upwards trying to flower and produce fruit. So if you apply your herbicide at this time in spring, the herbicide will mostly stay on the top part of the plant and will not kill it. What you see above ground of a blackberry is just the tip of an iceberg, there is 20 times more plant below the ground as root system.

When the plant has finished it mission of flowering and producing its fruit, usually around mid/late summer, the cycle reverses. At this point of time, the plant will try to absorb energy and nutrients and push it back into its root system to store the energy. This continues until late fall. So if you spray your herbicide this time, it is optimal because the herbicide will be absorbed into the root system which is where you want it to be to kill the plant at its roots.

So what herbicide to use? 3 were discussed:
- Triclopyr. This is the cheapest and commonly available in your big box store labeled as "Brush Killer" or "Poison Ivy killer". Common brands include Bayer Advanced and Ortho. They're all basically the same and uses triclopyr as the active ingredient. Triclopyr is also commonly sold as a mixture with other herbicides such as 2,4-D, a well known brand of this mixtures is "Crossbow", which is mixture of Triclopyr and 2,4-D. The downside to this product is that it may required repeat application before you get 100% kill on the blackberry. Recommended to spray once in fall, and again in late summer the following year. On the plus side, it is cheap and readily available in big box stores and online. For most home owners who are not managing pasture for livestock, this is more than enough.

- Telar (Chlorsulfuron). Slow acting but is good because you don't want to leaves to die quickly, you want it to stay alive and keep absorbing the herbicide into the roots. More effective than Triclopry but is also very expensive. $240.21 for an 8oz bottle. Avaialble on specialty sites such as domyown.com.

- Metsulfuron. Best option. Cheaper than Telar and also the most effective, practically 100% kill rate with it. The downsides are that you can only buy this at specialty site such as domywon.com. and some grass such as bahia grass can be injured by it. Not much of an issue for us in PNW as our lawn turf are cool season grass.

So if you have a really bad infestation of blackberry vines, get a bottle of Metsulfuron based herbicide (https://www.domyown.com/alligare-msm-60-herbicide-p-22075.html?sub_id=22076), mix it according to label and spray in late summer.

 

[SUPER X]

I have had a LOT of brambles - Himalayan blackberries. First I mostly cut them down with my flail mower - some I used a dozer on (the huge mounds of them). Then, since some percentage of the bushes return, I spray what comes up out of the ground. This way I use less herbicide and it is more targeted. I use my mixture of glyphosate/crossbow and diesel. Spray on a hot day, that way the herbicide is absorbed by the vegetation. Wait a couple weeks, then spray again on anything that is still healthy.

Vinegar can work, especially if you get the stronger concentrate (vinegar bought in a grocery store is only 4-5%, you can get 20-75% online) - I use vinegar on the moss/etc. that grows on my asphalt driveway, but it isn't as effective on other vegetation.

I have gotten rid of most of them, but some keep trying to come back, so every year I spray the individual vines that try to come back to keep it under control

cleaning vinegar Is like 6% ..its much stronger . i have not been able to find it this year ,wallys always had it but no go, I tried the vinegar and salt trick It did not work on my old growth black berry's.but it did on grass and moss . I hate putting poison on plants the deer and elk graze in my yard occasionally .
this concentrate from home-depot works well
BioAdvanced 32 oz. Brush Killer Plus Quart Concentrate-704640B ...homedepot.com› p › BioAdvanced-32-oz-Brush-Killer-Plus-Quart-Concentrate-704640B › 203124091


32 oz. Brush Killer Plus Quart Concentrate
Rid your yard of poision ivy, oak and sumac with Bayer Advanced Brush Killer Plus. Simply spray it on the leaves of the plants and let the plant spread it down to the roots. You'll see great results in a few weeks.

(4.3)
Price: 17.65 USD

 

[Lennie]

cleaning vinegar Is like 6% ..its much stronger . i have not been able to find it this year ,wallys always had it but no go, I tried the vinegar and salt trick It did not work on my old growth black berry's.but it did on grass and moss . I hate putting poison on plants the deer and elk graze in my yard occasionally .
this concentrate from home-depot works well
BioAdvanced 32 oz. Brush Killer Plus Quart Concentrate-704640B ...homedepot.com› p › BioAdvanced-32-oz-Brush-Killer-Plus-Quart-Concentrate-704640B › 203124091


32 oz. Brush Killer Plus Quart Concentrate
Rid your yard of poision ivy, oak and sumac with Bayer Advanced Brush Killer Plus.

(4.3)
Price: 17.65 USD

Active ingredient is Triclopyr at 8.8% concentration

 

[Hop Sing]

About half a gallon of glyphosate 40%, a few ounces of crossbow, a gallon of water, half a gallon of diesel.

I label that a HOT mix! YOW!!!

I would respectfully suggest that folks mix to label directions. People at Monsanto and other companies pay scientists big money to come up with the most effective rates of application so their product(s) are deemed effective. Using any more product that that is wasting money, IMO.

FWIW, you can kill blackberries any time but late summer or early fall spraying is best, as at that time of year the plants are transposing nutrients from the leave to the roots so herbicide sprayed then is taken to the roots for an effective kill.

All that said, I am not anyone's dad so do what you want.

 

[The Heretic]

I label that a HOT mix! YOW!!!

I would respectfully suggest that folks mix to label directions. People at Monsanto and other companies pay scientists big money to come up with the most effective rates of application so their product(s) are deemed effective. Using any more product that that is wasting money, IMO.

FWIW, you can kill blackberries any time but late summer or early fall spraying is best, as at that time of year the plants are transposing nutrients from the leave to the roots so herbicide sprayed then is taken to the roots for an effective kill.

All that said, I am not anyone's dad so do what you want.

I spot spray by hand. I tried spraying with the Bayer "concentrate" which is much less than 10%, usually below 5% - it had no effect on anything. So yes, I spray "hot" - it does have a much better effect on what I spray, but still some vegetation is no killed.

Later this week it is supposed to get hot again, so I will be spraying again - some things I missed. I only spray certain things, like the blackberries, scottish thistle & scotch broom, alder and maple. I use the vinegar on my driveway for the moss as it is effective enough and I spray a much wider area with the vinegar.

 

[bigbearbear]

I spot spray by hand. I tried spraying with the Bayer "concentrate" which is much less than 10%, usually below 5% - it had no effect on anything. So yes, I spray "hot" - it does have a much better effect on what I spray, but still some vegetation is no killed.

Later this week it is supposed to get hot again, so I will be spraying again - some things I missed. I only spray certain things, like the blackberries, scottish thistle & scotch broom, alder and maple. I use the vinegar on my driveway for the moss as it is effective enough and I spray a much wider area with the vinegar.

Hey man, I don't recommend this. You see, glyphosate is actually not a poison (surprise!), it is something much much worse than most people realize. Glyphosate is both a chelator and also an antibiotic.

As a chelator, it is highly negatively charged and hence attract positively charged elements in plants and soil. In fact, when glyphosate was first invented, it was used to clear pipes clogged with minerals.

It is also a very powerful antibiotic, it kills all beneficial microbes in the plant and the soil.

The way it works on plant, is that it sucks up all the nutrients in the plant and the soil, and also kill off all the beneficial microbes. This weaken the plant and encourage bad microbes and fungus to attack and hence eventually kill the plant. If you grow a plant in sterile soil and spray glyphosate on it, it will be stunted/weakened, but it will not die.

In other words, when you use a highly concentrated glyphosate in your property, you're essentially removing nutrients and beneficial microbes in your soil, and encourage bad microbes and fungus to grow. Do this enough times at high concentration, and you'll find that many things won't grow properly on your soil.

I would say just mix a triclopyr based product with diesel at the labeled concentration, for blackberry you'll want to spray at the right time, and be patient, they will die but just not immediately.