Badge access for schools

[Nosferatu]

Every employer I have worked for over the last 20 years has employed electronic badge access for nearly every door for every building. These systems can permit deny permissions for single users and for particular times of the day.

How come schools don't use these same systems? You could control exactly who gets in the main areas and what times and could set access based on their class schedule. Don't have a class is this particular room at this time? No access.

As a system administrator, I manage a system in my current job and can quickly (as in within seconds) disable ALL access for a particular person with a check mark in a box. Have a kid going nuts trying to blaze away? Lock down procedures can go into place and mitigate the damage. He/She can't get into rooms anymore.

It would also prevent anyone who is not supposed to be on campus from getting in.

Sure, It won't protect outside areas such as playgrounds or parking lots, but it's certainly a step up from just letting anyone go anywhere.

Seems like a pretty simple solution, am I wrong?

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[KKG]

If you want to pay for something like this go ahead. All the Security at SeaTac and other airports still hasn't stopped people taking things they shouldn't into them. So, what makes you think these will work at schools?

 

[Camelfilter]

Easiest start is as proposed, hire trained arm folk. Retired LEO, military etc. Similar to the Israeli method. Those folk know a few things about anti-terrorism.

 

[11Charlie]

I personally think its a great idea!! It won't work in every aspect but its better than what is there now! I will second the notion that there should be armed guards at every school but with something like this the guards could lock down a school pretty quick.

 

[etrain16]

Card systems are nice (my company installs access control systems), but they have ways to be easily defeated. Lost cards, if not reported and deactivated, allow anyone access that finds the card. Imagine how many kids would lose those cards on a regular basis and forget to report them - or the school fails to deactivate the lost card.

In addition, with that many people flowing in and out of a building, people will 'tailgate' other users - wait until a door has been opened by an authorized user and simply walk in behind them. Easily defeated - we see it happen via CCTV surveillance all the time. In order for them to be truly effective, you have to be certain the credentials (cards, fobs) are kept in strict control of the person and they must assure that no one is ever allowed to tailgate them when they open a door. In a school with hundreds, even thousands of kids, there is simply no way to prevent that from happening.

Now, some facilities go as far as to install certain types of entry turnstiles/gates that only allow one user to pass per access credential. This can be a benefit in higher traffic areas like a school, though are not foolproof and can be very expensive. Ideally, those entry locations would still need to be staffed by security, preferably armed.

To truly control access to a building, you have to have manned guard stations at public entrances and lock any other entrance. It's the only way.

 

[Koda]

will all the parents get cards?


the only solution is to hire or get volunteer armed guards or police, and allow teachers who want to to CCW.

 

[Nosferatu]

If you want to pay for something like this go ahead. All the Security at SeaTac and other airports still hasn't stopped people taking things they shouldn't into them. So, what makes you think these will work at schools?

We're already paying for it. How much of our tax money is pissed away on programs that don't do squat for the actual kids. Besides, coming up with the money isn't the hard part, we're the richest nation in the world, if this could genuinely provide a layer of security, there's ways to come up with the money. Hell, give tax breaks to companies who donate equipment and/or installation and training time. Cost shouldn't be an issue.

I personally think its a great idea!! It won't work in every aspect but its better than what is there now! I will second the notion that there should be armed guards at every school but with something like this the guards could lock down a school pretty quick.

Absolutely there should be additional measures, this is only a part of the security plan.

Card systems are nice (my company installs access control systems), but they have ways to be easily defeated. Lost cards, if not reported and deactivated, allow anyone access that finds the card. Imagine how many kids would lose those cards on a regular basis and forget to report them - or the school fails to deactivate the lost card.

Happens every day at work as well. I set an one-day expiration on every temporary card. It's simply no longer valid after the close of business hours for the day it's issued.

In addition, with that many people flowing in and out of a building, people will 'tailgate' other users - wait until a door has been opened by an authorized user and simply walk in behind them. Easily defeated - we see it happen via CCTV surveillance all the time. In order for them to be truly effective, you have to be certain the credentials (cards, fobs) are kept in strict control of the person and they must assure that no one is ever allowed to tailgate them when they open a door. In a school with hundreds, even thousands of kids, there is simply no way to prevent that from happening.

Now, some facilities go as far as to install certain types of entry turnstiles/gates that only allow one user to pass per access credential. This can be a benefit in higher traffic areas like a school, though are not foolproof and can be very expensive. Ideally, those entry locations would still need to be staffed by security, preferably armed.

To truly control access to a building, you have to have manned guard stations at public entrances and lock any other entrance. It's the only way.

You're right, there are tailgaters all the time. I don't let anyone tailgate on me. Training can help. Having security personal at the main entrances can mitigate this problem. Entrances can be designed to funnel people in and out in a single line.

will all the parents get cards?

the only solution is to hire or get volunteer armed guards or police, and allow teachers who want to to CCW.

Up to the school to decide. In my opinion, I see no reason they would need them unless there was a special even that required them.

I don't see hiring guards as the *only* solution. I think both these and other solutions work hand-in-hand.

I'm not presenting this as a be-all-end-all. It's just an idea that came to me as I badged in through 3 different doors this morning to get to my desk. Two of those required 2-factor authentication. Maybe it wouldn't work, maybe it would. Just an idea to toss around.

 

[kott0n]

My high school was gated with 1 way in and 1 way out. This entrance has a city PD officer at it all day.

Is this really that difficult?

 

[KKG]

Is this really that difficult?

A An, it isn't that hard to get around.

 

[Koda]

Up to the school to decide. In my opinion, I see no reason they would need them unless there was a special even that required them.

"special event".... like say.... the one at Parkland Florida's high school this week? Were not talking basketball games here.

and the school should never be able to decide what employee should be able to exercise their constitutional right to carry and protect themselves.

 

[Nosferatu]

"special event".... like say.... the one at Parkland Florida's high school this week? Were not talking basketball games here.

and the school should never be able to decide what employee should be able to exercise their constitutional right to carry and protect themselves.

I had more like giving a presentation in a classroom or such.

Who the hell said anything about restricting anyone's rights to carry? I think you have your threads crossed.

 

[Koda]

I had more like giving a presentation in a classroom or such.

Who the hell said anything about restricting anyone's rights to carry? I think you have your threads crossed.

apologies if I misunderstood your reply...

the only solution is to hire or get volunteer armed guards or police, and allow teachers who want to to CCW.

Up to the school to decide. In my opinion, I see no reason they would need them unless there was a special even that required them.

 

[DONOTBUGME]

we already give too much money to schools. I am not paying more taxes so they can pay for all this new bubblegum they need. Get rid of any child who is not a citizen in our schools and they will have the money to pay for the security devices.

 

[Nosferatu]

Oh, I should have responded better to your original post, my answer should have been split to respond to your question individually:

will all the parents get cards?

Up to the school to decide. In my opinion, I see no reason they would need them unless there was a special even that required them.

 

[kott0n]

A An, it isn't that hard to get around.

?

 

[Koda]

will all the parents get cards?

Oh, I should have responded better to your original post, my answer should have been split to respond to your question individually:




Up to the school to decide. In my opinion, I see no reason they would need them unless there was a special even that required them.

I don't think the idea would work for special events only. I think the idea for card keys is full time school hours.
I could possibly compromise on this one in the name of safety but I doubt there would be enough money to pay for cards for all parents... and as a parent it rubs me the wrong way that I don't have immediate access to my children. I don't mind following rules but if my child is in a public building then I should be able to access that building. The idea of card access is interesting, but as KKG indicates it can be compromised and as a card key user elsewhere I can attest to this. It would be a false sense of security that still leaves the school and children defenseless.

the only solution is for the schools to be able to defend the children.

 

[Camelfilter]

I don't think the idea would work for special events only. I think the idea for card keys is full time school hours.
I could possibly compromise on this one in the name of safety but I doubt there would be enough money to pay for cards for all parents... and as a parent it rubs me the wrong way that I don't have immediate access to my children. I don't mind following rules but if my child is in a public building then I should be able to access that building. The idea of card access is interesting, but as KKG indicates it can be compromised and as a card key user elsewhere I can attest to this. It would be a false sense of security that still leaves the school and children defenseless.

the only solution is for the schools to be able to defend the children.

Card restricted acces would be just another layer of security, not infallible by any means, but worthwhile.

That fla crazy would have been locked out, and security would also have been on the eyeball for him (ie trying to follow someone else / steeling someone's badge etc).

 

[Koda]

additional security is only effective if there is a primary means to defend the school. The school dint have any security to eyeball him, and the feds knew about him and ignored him. Everyone knew the guy was crazy and capable. There is no way to know if someone stole something until its too late or needed.

Crap, I cant find my card today.... I'll call the office when I get there tomorrow to let me in. What, somebody shot up the place today?

 

[cigars]

My high school was gated with 1 way in and 1 way out. This entrance has a city PD officer at it all day.

Is this really that difficult?

Trimet can't even secure entry to the "train" platforms. Anybody can walk on without paying a fare. That seems to go hand in hand with the will of the politicians to make sure that inclusiveness and diversity are taken first into consideration before security. Same feel good crowd think in the public schools. God forbid if they offend anyone by increasing security.

 

[Kruel J]

Well trained armed guards at every entrance point.