backstop for shooting berms

[rjmt]

railroad ties
BNSF has changed out all their rail ties along the I-5 corridor and they are being sold at Wilco Farm Stores
8.5"x7"x8' long - creosol oak, 200 lbs each
use for shooting berms, landscaping, ect
I got 10 out in Battleground yesterday

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[rjmt]

railroad ties
BNSF has changed out all their rail ties along the I-5 corridor and they are being sold at Wilco Farm Stores
8.5"x7"x8' long - creosol oak, 200 lbs each
use for shooting berms, landscaping, ect
I got 10 out in Battleground yesterday

BNSF only replaces these every 20 years and they are going fast

 

[dangerranger60]

The RR Ties themselves make poor bullet stops. But what they are great at is holding up sand berms. Sand makes a great bullet sponge! DR

 

[gmerkt]

In this area, wood products that have been treated with creosote and other preservative chemicals aren't released to the public for re-use. Like telephone poles. Some railroads won't sell used ties because the EPA has listed creosote as a regulated pesticide. There is an exemption in place for the RR's to use creosote in cross ties, when they are used specifically as such. For those that make it out of railroad custody as surplus and are subject to other use, the exemption no longer applies. In particular, there is health hazard when people use them in gardens. Degradation by bullet impact shreds the wood and releases creosote into the air which is toxic.

These are the federal concerns, the various states may have other regulations. Home Depot lists these for sale, but they are limited to certain markets, which makes me think some states don't allow sale of the product.

Here in Wash. state BNSF got fined $86K for using creosote treated cross ties for river banking projects. The ties are exempted for use as originally intended, but not for banking.

One thing that comes to my mind as a property owner. Having creosoted wood products on my property might in future become a hazmat liability. Something that might scotch a real estate deal, or maybe cause an expensive clean-up. Come to think of it, I have a chunk of telephone pole out there that came with the property 35 years ago.

 

[American123]

If I created a berm for a backstop I'd just make a mound of Earth. Obviously space is a factor. I see a lot of rubber tires used as structure for earthen backstops. Earth has been stopping bullets since bullets have been being shot.

 

[rjmt]

In this area, wood products that have been treated with creosote and other preservative chemicals aren't released to the public for re-use. Like telephone poles. Some railroads won't sell used ties because the EPA has listed creosote as a regulated pesticide. There is an exemption in place for the RR's to use creosote in cross ties, when they are used specifically as such. For those that make it out of railroad custody as surplus and are subject to other use, the exemption no longer applies. In particular, there is health hazard when people use them in gardens. Degradation by bullet impact shreds the wood and releases creosote into the air which is toxic.

These are the federal concerns, the various states may have other regulations. Home Depot lists these for sale, but they are limited to certain markets, which makes me think some states don't allow sale of the product.

Here in Wash. state BNSF got fined $86K for using creosote treated cross ties for river banking projects. The ties are exempted for use as originally intended, but not for banking.

One thing that comes to my mind as a property owner. Having creosoted wood products on my property might in future become a hazmat liability. Something that might scotch a real estate deal, or maybe cause an expensive clean-up. Come to think of it, I have a chunk of telephone pole out there that came with the property 35 years ago.

what area are you in? here in Clark Co and Cowlitz co they are offered for resale with no restrictions for landscaping
I use them for lining the driveway, would never use them in a garden
leach into the ground? on a gravel driveway with geotextile fabric and 3" of gravel - I'm not worried
releasing dangerous levels of toxins into the air when shot by bullets? send me documentation on this - I'm not buying that one

. EPA did not find health risks of concern for the general public, nor for workers who handle creosote-treated wood after application.

 

[rjmt]

The RR Ties themselves make poor bullet stops. But what they are great at is holding up sand berms. Sand makes a great bullet sponge! DR

I did not suggest you use them as your primary stop - one uses them as a frame for sand or dirt
we have 4' of dirt in front of the ties

 

[gmerkt]

releasing dangerous levels of toxins into the air when shot by bullets? send me documentation on this - I'm not buying that one

I did not use the words, "dangerous levels."

EPA does list guidelines for PPE to be used by workers handling creosote treated wood products.

I'm not trying to get into an argument here, do what you want to do. I'm suggesting there is another side to using these.

One of my concerns is that sometimes the status of materials changes over time. As with lead, which for many years didn't concern most people. Now, lead contamination is of great concern and gun ranges have been closed due to this issue. At present, I don't believe Wash. state has regulations that prohibit re-use of treated ties. Our local PUD will not give away old treated poles due to the creosote issue, I've asked. Their legal department has discontinued the practice.

 

[rjmt]

I did not use the words, "dangerous levels."

EPA does list guidelines for PPE to be used by workers handling creosote treated wood products.

I'm not trying to get into an argument here, do what you want to do. I'm suggesting there is another side to using these.

One of my concerns is that sometimes the status of materials changes over time. As with lead, which for many years didn't concern most people. Now, lead contamination is of great concern and gun ranges have been closed due to this issue. At present, I don't believe Wash. state has regulations that prohibit re-use of treated ties. Our local PUD will not give away old treated poles due to the creosote issue, I've asked. Their legal department has discontinued the practice.

there are many uses for rail ties - but as with my original suggestion, they make a sturdy backstop for shooting berms as long as you put dirt or sand in front of them
and they last forever
wood is expensive today - check the price of pressure treated wood compared to rail ties
I paid $75 for one sheet of marine plywood - $50 for a simple 4'x6" post - I'll go with rail ties any day

 

[Dungannon]

Dirt or sandbag berms certainly makes it easier to recover your lead [if your or friends like to cast projectiles].

 

[xtratoy]

railroad ties
BNSF has changed out all their rail ties along the I-5 corridor and they are being sold at Wilco Farm Stores
8.5"x7"x8' long - creosol oak, 200 lbs each
use for shooting berms, landscaping, ect
I got 10 out in Battleground yesterday

Cost for 10?

 

[thorborg]

I did not use the words, "dangerous levels."

Sort of splitting hairs here (just to be argumentative) not to be mean.
You said: "creosote into the air which is toxic."

adjective toxic
poisonous and harmful to people, animals, or the environment.

But to be fair, no mention of "levels" which I assume might downgrade the danger of toxicity to moot.

Personally, I have used many a RXR tie in the past for shed foundations and raised flower beds etc. and see no issue reclaiming existing used ties,... other than for a kids play fort.
Mater of fact, I have an old tie that was termited hollow I reclaimed and turned into a shelf for some carvings there are even a couple limb spurs in the cavity.

 

[gmerkt]

adjective toxic
poisonous and harmful to people, animals, or the environment.

But to be fair, no mention of "levels" which I assume might downgrade the danger of toxicity to moot

You can use RR ties to make a bed frame for all I care. But bullets tearing into wood introduce some amount of particulate matter into the air. Which is cumulative, no matter how small the amount. This hastens the release of chemicals into the soil, which then work their way into the water system, then get into the clams you eat. Yum creosote flavored clams.

In my county here, the public works department quit using pressure treated wood (non creosote) for road sign posts. They went back to cedar for a while; now what I see are steel posts. Some people are concerned about these things. I'm not overly worried about it, just saying.

 

[Lilhigbee]

When I first went to Wendover, UT in 1991 there were still several structures, including a number of houses, built from railroad ties. Not used as framing or timbers, but stacked like bricks and chinked with mortar. I can't even imagine what the smell must have been like on a hot day!! Last time I looked there were only a couple of the garages left.

 

[gmerkt]

Cost for 10?

$30 a copy at Wilco. When I checked the Home Depot site, it didn't display a price but previously they have ranged between $31 and $35 apiece.

I can't even imagine what the smell must have been like on a hot day!!

I've got one utility pole out front, replaced several years ago. It still reeks of creosote from many feet away in warm weather. Some of the replacement poles our PUD is using these days appear to be untreated or maybe with some method other than creosote (kinda whitish color); the larger ones are often laminated, tapering beams. The cross beams are being changed over to metal brackets.

 

[titsonritz]

Use the ties to hold your dirt.

 

[Member 34319]

You can use RR ties to make a bed frame for all I care. But bullets tearing into wood introduce some amount of particulate matter into the air. Which is cumulative, no matter how small the amount. This hastens the release of chemicals into the soil, which then work their way into the water system, then get into the clams you eat. Yum creosote flavored clams.

In my county here, the public works department quit using pressure treated wood (non creosote) for road sign posts. They went back to cedar for a while; now what I see are steel posts. Some people are concerned about these things. I'm not overly worried about it, just saying.

Imagine once you learn bullets are made out of lead!!!

 

[gmerkt]

Imagine once you learn bullets are made out of lead!!!

Oh, I'm aware. But as I said earlier, sometimes it takes a while for awareness of hazards to sink in. One extreme example, nuclear testing in the Nevada desert in the 1950's. All those soldiers and technicians exposed to radioactive dust, walked right into it. When it was over, they were dusting radioactive materials off of vehicles with straw brooms. Actors and crew shooting movies in St. George UT to the east, later a high number of them came down with cancers.

When I first went to Wendover, UT in 1991

I stopped by there for a visit in 2008. My interest was in the B-29 history of the former base. When I visit places like that, I can't help but take note of the effect on humanity involved. Those rows of little wooden huts, those didn't have a/c back in WW2. And heating in winter probably wasn't the best. The structures you describe there made of RR ties, they might've provided some protections against extreme thermal conditions, I don't know. I've been in dynamite bunkers in the Mohave Desert, they were half dug into the ground, heavy timbers for ceiling, in the heat of the day were quite cool.

Wendover is one hot, desolate place.

wood is expensive today

Pretty amazing. For example, 15/32 CDX sheathing, I don't remember exactly, but several years ago, I paid about $15 a sheet. During the Covid thing, I was watching lumber prices and the same sheet cost as much as $90. I think it's back down to about $32 now. Probably never see $15 again.

 

[The Heretic]

railroad ties
BNSF has changed out all their rail ties along the I-5 corridor and they are being sold at Wilco Farm Stores
8.5"x7"x8' long - creosol oak, 200 lbs each
use for shooting berms, landscaping, ect
I got 10 out in Battleground yesterday

I would not use them for landscaping - the creosote is not good for plants - especially gardens.

I use logs - I have plenty of logs.

Dirt is good, but it settles, especially when it gets rained on. I lost about half the height that way.