Messages
95
Reactions
146
OSP as a whole is not our enemy. Many OSP troopers and employees are good people, hunters and gun owners themselves. They do work directly for the governor though, so they walk a fine line if their ideology doesn’t align with hers, and they don’t call the shots.
I'll agree that many are not our enemies, but I won't call them "good people." We've seen over and over again that while many police officers won't be the JBT that violate citizen's rights, they also won't step in to stop the JBT coworkers that will. They'll be willing to protect me if a thug commits a crime, but not when one of their own does it.
 
Messages
95
Reactions
146
I’m very confused about how the BGC system works. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.

There’s a queue that’s two to three months long, yet some get approved through a mysterious instant system, and some get in the short line for approval within an hour or a couple days. From what I’ve heard, it seems to make a difference whether it’s called in or done online, what time of day it is, and even the venue (gun shows). The one thing that should logically make a difference (CHL) doesn't anymore.

I witnessed this yesterday, when a friend bought a gun at a gun show. They called it in, and told him “You’re number 15 in the queue”. He doesn’t have a CHL or any practical reason to be expedited in the system. I have a CHL and have been a “frequent flyer” for years, yet I went to the back of the line two months ago and am still waiting. Like I said before, I'm not in a hurry myself, but I have to wonder how this thing really works. What a screwed up, disjointed, dysfunctional system. I've never seen anything like it.
Much of it depends on what happens with your name. I only know about the close match on my name because of background checks for other reasons, and I have had some share info. It turns out there is someone with my same first, middle and last name, and is born the same month and year... and he's a multiple felon.
I don't know if / when my BGC came back as I have had all of my recent purchases released under the 3 day rule. I wouldn't be shocked if it was delayed. I'm going to apply for my CHL here soon, so I'll be finding out.
 
Messages
95
Reactions
146
I also heard the theory, posited by a state employee, that the lack of organized opposition to the 114 campaign (other than grass roots) was deliberate on the part of the big gun-rights organizations because the law was SO poorly written (and it is an absolute mess of a law). Passage and subsequent lawsuits could establish some very good case law and end up being a strong net gain for our side.

I’m skeptical of that one though, because I haven’t seen that kind of coordination or forward thinking in the big gun-rights organizations, but again one can always hope (wish, dream…)
I don't think there is a grand conspiracy by the gun rights group, just massively bad timing for the anti-gun folks. We have the most conservative supreme court in generations now, and it is coinciding with the anti-gunners making progress in a handful of states. The state laws are mostly getting slapped down. On top of that, the states going the other way vastly out-number the ones where the anti-gunners are winning. We have what on the list of anti-gun? The long time states: Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, California and Hawaii. The newcomers are Colorado, Oregon and Washington. That's 9 states. On the other side constitutional carry is legal in 26 and that's likely to reach 29 soon. 26 states are joining one of the cases against the brace rule. Why do I mention that? Because the courts are also swayed by the tradition in states. Right now the state law winds are headed for more open gun ownership, not more restrictive.

Bruen is a nightmare for the anti-gun folks.

I'm not sure where the line is for Supreme Court Justices, but a WHOLE LOT of laws don't meet the Bruen test. We've had a ban on new machine gun registrations for 37 years, 53 years of a registration on machine guns, and 145 years of no laws on machine guns. By the pure text of Bruen, neither of those laws should stand. But are the Justice's willing to go out on that limb?

For the last 55 years, you couldn't order a rifle by mail order. For 180 you could. And this is something that was clearly in common practice at the time! One can argue that machine guns didn't exist in 1788, but mail order guns sure did in 1788. While the guns have changed, guns themselves were shipped by mail order at the time of the founding of the country.
 
Messages
3,655
Reactions
8,832
I'll agree that many are not our enemies, but I won't call them "good people." We've seen over and over again that while many police officers won't be the JBT that violate citizen's rights, they also won't step in to stop the JBT coworkers that will. They'll be willing to protect me if a thug commits a crime, but not when one of their own does it.
Every single law enforcement officer I've interacted with were professional, polite and when needed helpful. Everyone, from the FBI, ATF, State, County and down to the City Cops. I go to Coffee with a Cop once a month and am part of the neighborhood watch. I would call all I've met good people doing a thankless job. Now that being said, the news media likes to paint a different picture than my personal experiences. So my question to you is this: Is your above statment based on YOUR personal dealings with Law Enforcement or are you just parroting what you've been told to say and to think?
?
 
Messages
48
Reactions
30
Every single law enforcement officer I've interacted with were professional, polite and when needed helpful. Everyone, from the FBI, ATF, State, County and down to the City Cops. I go to Coffee with a Cop once a month and am part of the neighborhood watch. I would call all I've met good people doing a thankless job. Now that being said, the news media likes to paint a different picture than my personal experiences. So my question to you is this: Is your above statment based on YOUR personal dealings with Law Enforcement or are you just parroting what you've been told to say and to think?
?
Not my experience at all. I've ran into several police officers with less than pleasant attitudes. Trying everything they could to make an arrest happen and extreme butt hurt when they realized that wasn't gonna happen.

The latest was when I was driving through Texas on I40. I went to visit my brother in California then left headed East to go visit family in IL. I was singled out of a group of at least 10 cars because I had an Oregon license plate.

Supposedly I was speeding, but I wasn't. The officer kept asking if I was smuggling drugs. Asking why I'm so far from Oregon. How I supported myself etc... Then when he realized I'm not a mule nor have I even had so much as a speeding ticket in my life he let me go without a ticket, even though I was supposedly "speeding."

You could say "he was just doing his job" but it was completely unnecessary and an infringement of my civil rights to drive unimpeded. He was just looking to ruin someone's life.
 
Messages
95
Reactions
146
Every single law enforcement officer I've interacted with were professional, polite and when needed helpful. Everyone, from the FBI, ATF, State, County and down to the City Cops. I go to Coffee with a Cop once a month and am part of the neighborhood watch. I would call all I've met good people doing a thankless job. Now that being said, the news media likes to paint a different picture than my personal experiences. So my question to you is this: Is your above statment based on YOUR personal dealings with Law Enforcement or are you just parroting what you've been told to say and to think?
?
I would call it a mixed bag. If I grew up where I live now, I'd likely have a view a bit closer to yours I'd expect. But I didn't, I grew up in the Portland area. I'm also an older guy, and the PPB back then was REALLY corrupt. Many of the nearby agencies weren't a whole lot better. Growing up, you learned you never wanted to be on their radar.
When I was 20 I was the recipient of a felony stop, my car matched an armed robbery. They didn't even bother with low ready, I had guns pointed right at me. Once they figured out it wasn't me, I didn't even get an "I'm sorry." As far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't have that double standard where it's OK to point at someone you're not about to shoot. Then again, I probably did come pretty close to getting shot... That was Covallis PD and Benton County Sheriff.

I've never had to interact with the FBI or the ATF. I guarantee I'm going to be an bubblegum to any ATF agent, every one of them is a JBT in my mind. I'm not a FFL, so I'm not forced to interact on a regular basis.

The state police have been a real mixed bag. I've never been pulled over by one, but have been at several accidents and there is a huge range. Most definitly there have been some great ones. The worst was a total raging bubblegum when my daughter was driving and got rear ended by a drunk / drugged driver. The dude was already suspended and ended up with a felony conviction on that one. Luckily my daughter was driving my in laws Dodge Dually and was un-injured. I was minutes behind and I parked safely, and was trying to get up there. He didn't want to hear it that it was my teenage daughter that was driving and kept me away. I walked up to him and wasn't trying to go past, I was just asking if it was OK, and he went to raging, screaming bubblegum right off the bat.

Since I've moved here nearly 30 years ago, I haven't had too much interaction, and not much to report that is too bad. Fortunately I've had zero that directly involved me. What has soured me more is what I have witnessed as a bystander. If it is a medical call, you bet I'll dial 911 and help out. But I am NEVER dialing 911 again for a police matter unless I'm the victim based on what I've witnessed happening when I have. I've thought the police would help, and the outcome didn't turn out better.

"or are you just parroting what you've been told to say and to think?"
I find that last comment a bit offensive. You run on the presumption that people are not on the receiving end of bad policing and / or unfortunate circumstances that leads one to have a less than favorable opinion of the police.

Edit to add: I'll note that you didn't address my biggest beef. How many of those "good guys" you know and interact with are honorable enough to stop their coworkers when those coworkers step out of line and violate the rights of citizens? I know there are 900,000 police officers in the USA, and there can be video after video out there that represent a miniscule slice of LEO's of America. Yet, not once, is there a video of one cop looking at another and saying "STOP". Not one ever of a cop disarming another cop and sticking them in the back of the police car. You'd think if there was, the backers of law enforcement would push them. Until that is the norm, I'm never going to be a LEO backer. We need them, and I know they have a hard job. I'm also not going to willingly associate with them, because I know that they lack the courage to be the truly "good" cops we need.
 
Last Edited:
Messages
4,276
Reactions
10,990
I have seen youtube videos of incidents where one officer went up against another who was in the wrong. I agree that historically it's been a major problem, it's a brotherhood where often the good ones will defend the bad ones. I saw it myself in a very bad way, a long time ago.

My point was just that many police officers, as individuals, are good people. They're gun owners, hunters, the type of people you want as friends and neighbors. I have a couple friends who I would trust with my life who are in law enforcement.
 
Messages
95
Reactions
146
Thank you Matthew, with your edit you've proven my point.
If it makes you feel better, good on you then.

I'm not some rabid "cops always bad" person. I do believe most of the time they get it right. I've long maintained that the problem is with both sides. The problem with BLM is that they always see the interaction between law enforcement and their brethren as the fault of the cops, when most of the time it's not. The problem with white folks is no matter how much the cop screws up, they don't demand action. They give officers what is known as the "King's pass", where because they're the "good guys" it was "just a mistake". Both sides are equally biased and equally a problem.

We NEED the middle ground. I do think I'm in the middle ground. Law enforcement in the USA is REALLY, REALLY broken. Too much of law enforcement is willing to give those that hate them every bit of ammunition to sway the public against them. I'd love to see reform, but not the way it is being done in places like Portland. Law enforcement needs to get on board, or what we will get is more of the Portland like reform where crime runs rampant and police do nothing.
 
Messages
16
Reactions
7
People have been disarmed without knowing it. Many stories of people being arrested for using deadly force while justified. They already disarmed us. DA's in red states have no mercy either. Fox News discussed this in detail. The right to self defense is dead even in most red states. You'd have to live in a very small town to have a chance of not being arrested and tried. Having insurane doesn't matter. You don't want to be sitting in jail waiting for timely appeal in state appealate courts. I don't even carry my gun anymore when I leave my house. No point. DA would nail me no matter what and once jury convicts I'll rot away in prison until it reaches 9th circuit court. Trump is right. America is dead. Carry a gun at your own risk. And if you have to use it God help you because DA's will charge anyone to save face and will use any detail they can to pin you to the wall. Even in red counties. I used to really be into self defense and guns but once I realized the political landscape of the judiciary and looked into recent and past cases of good honest people being put in prison for defending themselves I realized our rghts have been stripped away years ago.
 
Messages
95
Reactions
146
People have been disarmed without knowing it. Many stories of people being arrested for using deadly force while justified. They already disarmed us. DA's in red states have no mercy either. Fox News discussed this in detail. The right to self defense is dead even in most red states. You'd have to live in a very small town to have a chance of not being arrested and tried. Having insurane doesn't matter. You don't want to be sitting in jail waiting for timely appeal in state appealate courts. I don't even carry my gun anymore when I leave my house. No point. DA would nail me no matter what and once jury convicts I'll rot away in prison until it reaches 9th circuit court. Trump is right. America is dead. Carry a gun at your own risk. And if you have to use it God help you because DA's will charge anyone to save face and will use any detail they can to pin you to the wall. Even in red counties. I used to really be into self defense and guns but once I realized the political landscape of the judiciary and looked into recent and past cases of good honest people being put in prison for defending themselves I realized our rghts have been stripped away years ago.
My fist suggestion is get out of Portland. I left a long time ago and life is much better. If you're staying in the valley, pick one of the counties that hasn't been taken over - Linn, Yamhill or Polk. In any one of those three you're much less likely to face an adversarial DA, and very much less likely to face a jury made up of anti-gun people.

I will not carry in Portland either. They will crucify you there. I also avoid Portland as much as I can.
 
Messages
7,738
Reactions
13,003
My fist suggestion is get out of Portland. I left a long time ago and life is much better. If you're staying in the valley, pick one of the counties that hasn't been taken over - Linn, Yamhill or Polk. In any one of those three you're much less likely to face an adversarial DA, and very much less likely to face a jury made up of anti-gun people.

I will not carry in Portland either. They will crucify you there. I also avoid Portland as much as I can.
Another perspective is I would never not carry in Portland (airport or somewhere like that excepted). Even in the house I am always armed. The chances of needing a gun to save your life are much higher in Portland compared to many other places. I have not been involved in, but witnessed, 2 armed car jackings, a stabbing, and armed robbery. Last month we had a shooting near us also.

If you live through the encounter then you can worry about court (also be smart about it if you do have to use a gun). Have had several encounters that I was involved in where I was damn glad to have a gun but voice, body language, flashlight were enough to solve the situation each time so thankfully have not needed it. Just because you have a gun with you does not mean you have to use it, or even let anyone else know you have it.
 
Messages
95
Reactions
146
I'm going to assume that was aimed at me. Congratulations, you're the first unkind person I've run into on this forum, which has been amazingly kind otherwise. You don't like my point of view, so you call me a "troll" when I've done nothing of the sort. I get it, you don't like my point of view... but you don't get to shut me up. I'm not baiting, I'm not taking a radical point of view, not being inflammatory, so I don't see how I'm being a troll.

A pretty good chunk of the gun ownership community is anti-cop. It stems from the realization that there are those in government who want us disarmed, and we know who will be doing the disarmament. It won't be LEVO, the legislature or queen Tina. Some of the County Sheriff's have balked at measure 114, but the state police will play along. I'm not inclined to think fondly of them in the face of those facts.
 
Messages
95
Reactions
146
Another perspective is I would never not carry in Portland (airport or somewhere like that excepted). Even in the house I am always armed. The chances of needing a gun to save your life are much higher in Portland compared to many other places. I have not been involved in but witness led 2 armed car jackings, a stabbing, and armed robbery.

If you live through the encounter then you can worry about court (also be smart about it if you do have to use a gun). Have had several encounters that I was involved in where I was damn glad to have a gun but voice, body language, flashlight were enough to solve the situation each time so thankfully have not needed it. Just because you have a gun with you does not mean you have to use it, or even let anyone else know you even have it.
I appreciate your point of view. Part of my reason I have for saying that there are only two reasons to visit Portland: To fly out of PDX, or to visit Washington where I don't have a permit. So I'm not going to pack in my final destination and I'm not leaving a gun in my car parked for weeks at long term parking.
 
Messages
1,940
Reactions
3,379
It's all good, sitting around a campfire likely would stop most all of the infighting and nonsense that goes on in here.

This has gotten to be an edgy place with the Unchecked Tyranny going on recently, that has to at least be part of the problem.
 
Messages
86
Reactions
119
I'll agree that many are not our enemies, but I won't call them "good people." We've seen over and over again that while many police officers won't be the JBT that violate citizen's rights, they also won't step in to stop the JBT coworkers that will. They'll be willing to protect me if a thug commits a crime, but not when one of their own does it.
BS!!!
 

Upcoming Events

Oregon Arms Collectors March Gun Show
Portland, OR
Centralia Gun Show
Centralia, WA
ONRI Rally at the Capitol
Salem, OR
Tillamook County Gun Show
Tillamook, OR

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top