Poll: Background Check Suggestion (Ending the "Gun Show Loophole" argument)

[Docicee]

If I abuse a right, I should not be granted to keep that right. Especially if I used my rights to take away the rights of others.

Rights in America are inalienable they are not laws or privileges to be taken away, please take the time to understand the differences. If this does not meet with your satisfaction please feel free to exit the county and do not collect $200 as you pass go.

My family and I have fought and died for these rights and I really don't appreciate when some who obviously is not a citizen or should repeat grade school talk about what they no little about. Educate yourself prior to crapping on our values.

Damn!

 

[BigNickShooting]

Rights in America are inalienable they are not laws or privileges to be taken away, please take the time to understand the differences.

So ... if rights in America are inalienable why do they take your right to vote away when you are in prison? Can you explain this to us, less educated people? Ooohhh ... because they enacted a law that takes your right away ... "Patriot Act" is one of them ... and some other crappy "Acts" ...

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_rights_due_to_felony_conviction

 

[Riot]

Rights in America are inalienable they are not laws or privileges to be taken away, please take the time to understand the differences. If this does not meet with your satisfaction please feel free to exit the county and do not collect $200 as you pass go.

My family and I have fought and died for these rights and I really don't appreciate when some who obviously is not a citizen or should repeat grade school talks about what they no little about. Educate yourself prior to crapping on our values.

Damn!

Troll bait...don't bite it BigNick.

 

[BigNickShooting]

Troll bait...don't bite it BigNick.

True ... true ...

 

[BigNickShooting]

we have to be able to be taken on our word... plain and simple

There was a time when a man's word or a simple handshake was counting for something ... not anymore ... too many men abusing their "word" these days ... including our "finest" in the Government ...

There are places still where a simple "spit in the hand, then a handshake" counts as a contract ... Would you do it here, though?

 

[Old Dog]

This one was from a couple days ago, but I just saw it and couldn't let it go by --
"hermannr" stated

First: many (maybe most) of the people in jail today are their because of some very misguided laws.

NOT in Washington state, Ace. You've gotta work real hard to be convicted of a felony in this state. If you don't believe it, start by looking up the criminal history of those who finally get a trip to prison ...

We incarcerate, in this state, far fewer people (by percentage) for drug offenses than almost every other state. If you look at why our convicts are in prison, the stats will show you that we have a far higher percentage of people convicted of violent offenses than MOST other states. Contrast Washington with, say, a state such as Oklahoma.

Before you go saying that we have a lot of convicted felons because of "misguided laws," you better check your facts. Perhaps you're basing your opinion upon a state in which you formerly resided.

Our convicts in Washington who've earned the trip to the Big House have EARNED it. And if you knew most of these folks, there's no way you'd ever advocate them EVER being allowed to legally own firearms again ...

 

[Father of four]

There was a time when a man's word or a simple handshake was counting for something ... not anymore ... too many men abusing their "word" these days ... including our "finest" in the Government ...

There are places still where a simple "spit in the hand, then a handshake" counts as a contract ... Would you do it here, though?

Yes I would. It depends on the person and the circumstance though.

 

[BigNickShooting]

Yes I would. It depends on the person and the circumstance though.

Well ... You're one of the people I would do it with ...

 

[Jammer Six]

Going back for more education was one of the wisest things I ever did.

Emotion does not equal either logic, law or wisdom.

 

[Docicee]

So ... if rights in America are inalienable why do they take your right to vote away when you are in prison? Can you explain this to us, less educated people? Ooohhh ... because they enacted a law that takes your right away ... "Patriot Act" is one of them ... and some other crappy "Acts" ...

Read this: Loss of rights due to felony conviction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First I was replying to one person about "you should lose your right attitude" not making a blanket statement about how we the people have been sorely abused by our government. The difference is values I fought for vs values that Obama and his crowd take away every day. Nick I think we see eye to eye on most issues you've posted here.

 

[BigNickShooting]

First I was replying to one person about "you should lose your right attitude" not making a blanket statement about how we the people have been sorely abused by our government. The difference is values I fought for vs values that Obama and his crowd take away every day. Nick I think we see eye to eye on most issues you've posted here.

I think people everywhere are abused by their governments in one way or another. Some Governments are worse than other. And personally I don't think that Obama is the one at fault ... If you're looking at the roots of the problem, they come from long ago ... both Republicans and Democrats are selling this country to the highest bidder and the only one that could have (or tried) to put a stop of this was Ron Paul. Too bad that the MSM is ignoring him completely. Unfortunately most of our people in America are using the MSM to base their political opinions on ... Until we will not turn off the TV and start reading some books and get our news from independent news outlets (that are mostly on the Internet these days) we will not be OK. Get out of your home, get to know your neighbors, barbecue together, play with your kids outside, and TURN OFF the damn TV.

I also think that we should do what the people of Iceland did. I am not sure if too many people know what happened in Iceland starting in 2008 (hmmm that year sounds familiar - the year of the great bailouts) ... The people fired the Government and started to arrest the bankers who made loans against people's interests. Also, did you know that Iceland is the oldest democracy on Earth? ... And is slowly recovering having excellent financial results in the past 2 year ... I wonder why ...

Don't get me wrong. I am in no way advertising socialism ... I am just advertising for libertaniarism. I don't believe there has to be somebody who should tell us everyday what to do. People would know better what to do.

 

[hermannr]

This one was from a couple days ago, but I just saw it and couldn't let it go by --
"hermannr" stated NOT in Washington state, Ace. You've gotta work real hard to be convicted of a felony in this state. If you don't believe it, start by looking up the criminal history of those who finally get a trip to prison ...

We incarcerate, in this state, far fewer people (by percentage) for drug offenses than almost every other state. If you look at why our convicts are in prison, the stats will show you that we have a far higher percentage of people convicted of violent offenses than MOST other states. Contrast Washington with, say, a state such as Oklahoma.

Before you go saying that we have a lot of convicted felons because of "misguided laws," you better check your facts. Perhaps you're basing your opinion upon a state in which you formerly resided.

Our convicts in Washington who've earned the trip to the Big House have EARNED it. And if you knew most of these folks, there's no way you'd ever advocate them EVER being allowed to legally own firearms again ...

Hum...lets see, one of my grandfather's cousins spent Christmas 1899 (and quite a bit more) on McNeil...for??? Selling liquor to the Indians???? You say WA (Now I've live here since 1970) has corrected all of it's rather "unuseful" laws??? At least I know that one is gone, but...

I don't disagree totally, but if there was no "War on Drugs", there would be no profit to feed the gangs and their life styles. You know, history repeats itself...Prohibition???? made alot of 2 bit punks very wealthy, resulted in a lot of people in jail, and a lot of others died. Why?

 

[BigNickShooting]

@hermannr: Because we are slowly loosing our most important value: common sense.

 

[Riot]

@hermannr: Because we are slowly loosing our most important value: common sense.

We're trading common sense for the expectation of the government to do everything for us. We expect the government to keep us safe, to test our food and to educate our children. Suddenly there's a "loose string" that foils the government's plans- anyone anywhere in the US can buy a gun for any reason. They don't like that and neither do the soccer moms that think mandatory, universal healthcare is a good thing. So what is their "smoking gun" they all ride on to convince others to their cause? Keeping the guns away from criminals and nuts.

What I propose is an option. An option to keep the man off our backs and off our guns. An option for an individual to ensure that another individual isn't a criminal or a nut before a gun exchanges hands. If you have a better solution (i.e. checking a CHL) then I'm all for it and this should probably be the "status quo" for most private transactions.

I realize that most of us are right-wing and most of us are probably for the death penalty. Nevertheless, we don't live in an area of the world that utilizes the death penalty very often. Why do we use the death penalty in the first place? It's to show other criminals that if their crime is bad enough there are dire consequences. Nevertheless, after 16 years who really even remembers "Cal Brown"? The victim's families, and that's about it. We have many more people in the state of WA on death row by the way...and they've been there for years. Then (on the reverse) we have people that have been sentenced to LIFE imprisonment but get out in a few years. You guys ever hear of Floyd William Marr? He's another murderer set to get out actually next year...there's also another dude named Bozeman (I can't remember his first name) who actually got out last year after stabbing someone to death. He was a transient that tried to rob someone and ended up killing them. Want to know where Bozeman is? He's out somewhere in the woods of Spokane with a warrant out for his arrest after failing to check in with his parole officer (WA calls them Community Corrections Officers or CCOs) after he got high and stole some property from a business.

That's right gents, the cycle repeats itself. We are literally on rinse and repeat with these scumbags and I can't believe it when I read people saying "well he's out, lets give him his gun rights back" bullcrap. If you don't know the legal system then go, educate yourself...take a tour and see them issued a scoop of ice-cream while they watch TV and play pool. Then watch as the officers that supervise them get monitored more than the inmates they supervise and tell me they served their penance.

It's a flawed system, for sure. We let sex offenders and murders out early to make more room for drug possessions, fraud and assaults...one guy is in for life for three strikes (no possible way for parole like Marr or Bozeman). What are his crimes? Drunken bar fights. No deaths....no weapons....just bar brawls. While the guy next to him gets out in a few years after beating his wife to death with a broken table leg. True story.

Probably the only person that knows more about our justice system is that man (the guy in for life for assaults).

What I don't get about this forum, sometimes, are the baseless accusations and insulting one-liners directed to divide the issue rather than post your opinions, suggestions and experiences on the actual topic at hand. It's like some of you live in the drama- baiting people into fights under the guise of self-righteous/sanctimonious patriotism. Which is ironic since you probably agree with most of my stances in the first place, but aren't willing to admit it due to pride or ego...or you just want to continue to live in the moment of internet drama.

We all take away the rights from those that take away the rights of others. When? When we decide to take away the life from someone that threatens us or our loved ones. When we demand justice for a victim for the subject to be executed. By some of your standards, I take away people's rights everyday. I search offenders without cause or warrant. Their phones calls are recorded and heard...their mail is opened and read. They have no privacy, no 4th Amendment rights while incarcerated. Do you not want it this way? To ensure they are being good while in prison and actually serving their penance to society? Or do you think I'm just another jack-booted thug?

[/rant]

 

[Jammer Six]

You're no more interested in my opinion than I am in yours.

 

[hermannr]

@hermannr: Because we are slowly loosing our most important value: common sense.

What we are really loosing is our freedom. Just like when prohibition was on, do you think FDR quit drinking? No, it was widely know he kept on drinking. Do you really think Ob or Clinton quit pot? I doubt it. But they have the gall to tell everyone else...oh, pot is ok for me "I don't inhale" Clinton...but it's bad for you so I will protect you from yourself.

Bull, I brew my own beer, and wine which is totally legal because I do not sell it. Why should my neighbor (hypothetical neighbor not an actual person) Go to JAIL for growing his own prefered intoxicant? Why should someone that benifits from the medicinal qualities (alcohol or pot) be restricted from access just because it may be intoxicating?

The whole basis is control, nothing else...just ask the Brady bunch, or Bloomy what "common sense" is to them when it comes to firearms? No, Common sense today is no sense at all.

Cry all you will about felons and guns, but those that would use a firearm with criminal intent really do not give one hoot what the law is. If they want a firearm they will obtain a firearm...if they can't purchase it, they will steal it. If they can't steal it from a civilian, they will steal it from LE, if that doesn't work, they will steal it from the military.

I was 21 before the GCA68 went into effect....there was no bigger problem before, and there were no prohibited persons, FFLs, or any of that stuff....Oh yes, and back then, they actually executed truely dangerous people..they can't kill again when they are dead you know.

Jim Crow is alive and well with the "common sense" crowd.

Disclaimer: I am not poor, I am not black, and I am not young...but I am a Libertarian

 

[Jammer Six]

We are gaining freedom, not losing it.

Maintaining our freedoms requires accurate analysis of where we are to even begin that maintenance; crying that the sky is falling when, in fact, our freedom is growing defeats that aim.

 

[Robtheroofer]

At walmart yesterday there was a lady with a stand asking people to sign several petitions. One was for better gun control.

I asked her what the better control was. She told me it would enable an act to take guns from crazy people, dangerous people and those not deemed suitable to have guns.

I thought her description was vague and told her I could not sign it.

She continued on asking if I wanted guns in the hands of crazy people. I asked her how these people would be determined to be unfit.

She went on saying that if people were deemed temporarily insane or unstable they would lose their guns and I should support that.

I asked her again, how would this be determined. She gave some examples, one of which was if someone called to say someone threatened them or was depressed and other examples along these lines.

I asked her what laws would enforce this act, what would the discretion be and who would decide these things. She could not answer me but insisted that any one that cared would sign the petitoon.

I had to slowly explain to her that I could not sign such a vague petition based on her description nor would I sign anything presented to me by someone that could not explain in depth what she was asking me to sign.

I don't think she would have been able to comprehend that crazy people will get guns if they want them as will criminals but a scorned wife, husband or pissed off neighbor could simply make a call that could possibly take someone's right ro defend themselves away.

As I walked away she was still a king me to think about it. I don't think she should have a gun, some one might yell fire!

I may have missed some of the details but I could not debate with her any longer.

 

[albin25]

I may have missed some of the details but I could not debate with her any longer.

Next time ask her for her name because you want to report her to the FBI as a crazy person that wants to deny others their civil rights, without due process.

If the world was the way her delusional little brain ffeeeellls it is...
...wouldn't someone have put her out of our misery by now**?



(**why does that sound a BB makes spinning around inside an empty soda can come to mind?)

 

[albin25]

And Holy 5hit on a shingle !...I just noticed how OLD this topic is.

As to the O.P...
1- I really don't think I'd want to meet someone...run their info through a "civilian eligibility check" and have to tell Mr. Felon that I won't sell it to him now 'cuz he failed his background check....and I need to call the cops.
2- Also, if the felon had no problem attempting to buy a gun illegally by lying...what makes you think he'd draw the line at using a fake ID?
3- If you got fooled, would you still have legal liability?