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ATF vs Saiga! and WA sales tax on Transfered firearms??

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Iansstud, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. Iansstud

    Iansstud SW WA / PDX Member

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    I walked into my LGS today and was talking to my "dealer" and someone was leaving with a Saiga 12... so I asked how much they were these days and was supprised to find out that they were charging 1K!!!! Jezzzz!!! I told him he was WAY too proud of this guns, and he said the ATF is selling them for him!!! because of this study here:
    ATF Study

    The best price I could find online after 2hrs of looking was $630 and I would have to wait till March 1st to ship!!
    I wondered if this is even the same $399 gun that was on 'sale' to even move them over a year ago.

    What is going on here!!! I guess Plinking is not a reason to have sporting firearms




    On another note, I bought a FAL this week and was going to get it transfered to my dealer and he said they are getting hit hard to start charging sales tax on the SALE PRICE OF THE FIREARM!!!

    Even if its a used gun from a private party!! Even if they dident sell you the firearm, and even if there is no bill of sale, they are required to charge tax on 'fair market value' WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So now I have to pay $1300 for the gun $20 for the Transfer and $110 for TAX that has already been paid!!!! has anyone heard of this??? Does anyone else pay this!!!

    If my gun dealer is right, I hope everyone knows that If a Gun was sold and transfered 8 times it would be paid in full to the state JUST IN TAXES!!!!! (including transfer fees)

    Its hard to belive these people TAKE this much of EVERYTHING WE OWN and our state is this DEEP in the hole!!!

    so, because of my state's mismanaged budget they will start charging US the people MORE money?!

    I feel like They should all loose there jobs, If I get hired to do a job and I Eff it all up over and over again, then I should not be able to keep getting a paycheck!

    Im not happy after filling out my taxes this year and seeing what I made, Paid and OWE!

    I write my elected leaders (4-6 of them) once a month and get 1-2 replys. Out of those 1-2 replys maybe one will be a actual reply that has something to do with my question and not an auto letter telling me how we need to raise taxes to FIX the problem. I feel that Everyone(the 90% of people that dont care to write but think that simply voting for the person of thier party will make everything better) seems to be ok with this...


    To finnish this off, Has anyone know more about this ATF SHOTGUN STUDY? anyone hear of the tax thing for transfers? anyone have to actually pay this?
     
  2. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

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    Both have been covered NUMEROUS times....the "shotgun ban" had nothing to do with Saigas, pure internet speculation....which in turn caused a panic run on remaining inventory and gouging to go with. ( they went after the Turkish .410 AR looking guns ) The tax thing has been covered as far back as a year and a half ago...
     
  3. Iansstud

    Iansstud SW WA / PDX Member

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    Thanks for the update! I've been out of the loop

    Didn't the report just come out?
     
  4. nubus

    nubus Guest

    If you are a Washington resident, tax is due upon purchase, even in a private party situation.
    If you but a car private party, the tax is collected when you transfer the title.
    This is the same scenario that has been thrust on the FFL dealers.
    If something is bought or sold, sales tax is due, period.
    Don't you love having a sales tax vs. an income tax!
    It's like getting punished for spending your money!
     
  5. Generator

    Generator Bend Member

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    I'd take lower income taxes and to start paying Sales tax in Oregon.
    I get punished for making money, at least shopping is a choice.
     
  6. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    Since when?
    I guess I could choose to be homeless and eat out of dumpsters, but I dont think that really counts.
     
  7. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Agree somewhat. I would choose to completely eliminate the income tax and go to a sales tax in OR. We cannot give them both. CA has 'all three legs of the stool'...and look at the situation they are in.

    Keith
     
  8. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    No, the point is: in OR, you pay at least 9% of your income to the state, period. In WA, if you spend all of your money on expensive stuff, you'll pay more tax, but if you purchase sensibly, you'll pay less in tax and most likely save money. Also, food in WA for the most part isn't taxed.

    Back on topic: $1,000 Saigas are gunshop ripoffs. Turn around and walk out the door.

    Keith
     
  9. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    That is what the pro-sales tax guys try to sell you.

    If Oregon ever gets sales tax, you will still have the same income tax.
     
  10. Generator

    Generator Bend Member

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    Yup.

    I'm guessing it will be summer before the ~$400 Saiga 12s are back.

    Agreed.
     
  11. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    There was never any confusion about any of that.
    No matter how you slice it, you are penalized for contributing to society along with local and national economies.

    Money is only valuable when spent. Otherwise it is a paper collection. You are either penalized for making or for making use of your money. It's a catch22. Different means to the same end. Some people may feel better about having it taxed on the back end, but either way the tax will be paid.

    Personally, I hate sales tax. I wish that those who advocate sales tax would happily move to one of the ~45 states that already have it and stop trying to ruin one of the last places in the U.S. where paying for a $4.99 item with a $5 bill will net you a penny in change and a smile.

    As far as $1000 saiga's go... The only thing sillier than a $1000 saiga 12 is a an $1100 saiga 12 after taxes.
     
  12. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The problem is they'll entice you by lowering the income tax rate to get it voted in, then jack it back up to where it was. So we'll have an income tax and a sales tax.
    The FFL is just trying to cash in on the latest panic. I'm sure he was listing ARs for $1,500 during the buying frenzy.
     
  13. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Many/most dealer in the state do not charge the tax even though they are supposed to. I know some dealers on here get bent out of shape about that but its still true. Probably the majority of kitchen table dealers don't do it. I never paid the tax in the 20+ years I lived in Washington. Remember that you can buy rifles and shotguns from a dealer across state lines so if you can arrange for a transfer into Portland or anywhere else in Oregon you could save the tax if your WA dealer is following the rules and you live close to the border.
     
  14. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Hillsboro, Or Active Member

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    Other states are requiring out of state purchases, sales tax. California has been doing it for a couple of years. Yeah, yeah, I know. But it does not surprise me that other states have started doing this especially with many states being in the budget mess that is going around.
     
  15. viperjody

    viperjody Seattle, WA Active Member

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    I love living in washington and shopping in oregon. :).... the Saiga scare is real. My FFL, who BTW does not charge tax on tranfers attended this years shot show where the ATF announced in a meeting with the FFLs that they were on target to ban or alter the saiga. That being said, it will probably won't happen for a while, but I think they will come down again and then sky rocket. I think they will ban hicap shotgun mags and drums...who knos, but look for changes regardless.
     
  16. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Sales and income tax both destroy what could be a robust economy. Don't get me started about property taxes
     
  17. RB87

    RB87 Oregon Active Member

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    Bah, a man can dream can't he? :)


    I grew up with a sales tax, hated it but now I'd trade income and property taxes for a sales tax.
     
  18. lmmmmm

    lmmmmm Seattle Member

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    I thought if a vehicle already paid sales tax it wasnt required when transfered? But, it's been awhile since I bought a private vehicle.

    Saiga is not mentioned in any ban. It is pure speculation and so there is panic buying. If you didnt want one before, why would you want one now? I'm more interested in the upcoming Kel Tec double tube shotgun.

    and someone please PM with FFL's not charging sales tax ...
     
  19. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    The problem is they won't trade it they will simply make it in addition to the taxes you already pay.

    As my dad used to say "They tell you it's only another nickle per dollar but what they don't seem to understand is there are only 20 nickles in a dollar"
     
  20. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    The beast needs to eat to stay fat and sassy.. even if it kept the deal the sales tax would just be ramped up sky high over a few years, and expanded to now exempt items