ATF Study on shotguns has further implications than importation of "certain" shotguns

[joeroket]

Why does a supreme court ruling have validity over the constitution if the ruling is wrong? That makes no sense. I'm sure we could find MANY SCOTUS cases that contradict the constitution.

Their ruling is the end all be all unless they decide to grant certiorari to case that would already be covered under a previous decision. They have in the past refused certiorari to cases because there is an opinion published by them that covers a specific argument.

No, you wont find one that contradicts the constitution. As soon as they rule their decision becomes the legal interpretation of the constitution.

 

[joeroket]

SCOTUS is part of the problem. They're helping to infringe. I highly doubt that you would find an opinion that reflects the same view that I and Blitz have shared here.

I don't doubt at all that you've found several opinions that contradict.

Yea, Heller and McDonald certainly were cases that infringed the right. Oh wait, no they weren't.

 

[armedredneck]

Yea, Heller and McDonald certainly were cases that infringed the right. Oh wait, no they weren't.

You're not getting it. You have to think outside the box. Sure, they affirmed a person's individual right, but it never should have gotten that far. If you go back and look at the Constitution and look at what the founder's originally intended, our government exceeded the bounds a long long time ago.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

What SCOTUS case states that? I have read many that actually contradict your statement.

I do not need 9 traitors in black robes to deny/affirm what the BORs and the Founders clearly intended

 

[joeroket]

You're not getting it. You have to think outside the box. Sure, they affirmed a person's individual right, but it never should have gotten that far. If you go back and look at the Constitution and look at what the founder's originally intended, our government exceeded the bounds a long long time ago.

Oh I get it. What box is there to think outside of? They have the ability to interpret the constitution and have done so for more than 200 years. I know what they intended by it and have read many papers by Madison. The fact of the matter now is choosing arguments carefully and pressing them little by litte just as the government has done to us over the last hundred years.

 

[joeroket]

I do not need 9 traitors in black robes to deny/affirm what the BORs and the Founders clearly intended

Well you certainly need to abide by their decisions now, don't you?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

No, I don't, I'm a revolutionary just as the Founders were

 

[armedredneck]

I do not need 9 traitors in black robes to deny/affirm what the BORs and the Founders clearly intended

Exactly. This statement reflects exactly what I meant when I said think outside the box.

 

[armedredneck]

Oh I get it. What box is there to think outside of? They have the ability to interpret the constitution and have done so for more than 200 years. I know what they intended by it and have read many papers by Madison. The fact of the matter now is choosing arguments carefully and pressing them little by litte just as the government has done to us over the last hundred years.

You get it. Good for you. Whatever Dude.

 

[joeroket]

No, I don't, I'm a revolutionary just as the Founders were

How's that working out for ya?

 

[joeroket]

You get it. Good for you. Whatever Dude.

??? Nice discussing it with you.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

How's that working out for ya?

I hope in my lifetime to find out. I imagine many of my so called countrymen will continue to support the status quo of our gradual enslavement for their own selfish economic reasons or out of cowardice or simply being immoral in nature. I will never be found in such people's company, however

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

 

[armedredneck]

I hope in my lifetime to find out. I imagine many of my so called countrymen will continue to support the status quo of our gradual enslavement for their own selfish economic reasons or out of cowardice or simply being immoral in nature. I will never be found in such people's company, however

Somehow Sir, I have a feeling you will. I don't believe it's that far off.

 

[armedredneck]

??? Nice discussing it with you.

Likewise

 

[Jamie6.5]

I think that in defense of our shotguns we should think INSIDE the box.
That box being existing gun laws.
To wit: The Pittman-Robertson Act authorizes an excise tax to be collected on SPORTING firearms and ammunition.

Was/were Pittman-Robertson tax(es) collected on the sale of these arms, and the ammo you/we shoot out of them?
I believe it was. Only police departments are exempt from these taxes.

Therefore they are sporting arms. The Dept. of Interior said so when the P-R taxes were levied on their sales.

As such, THEY defined them as "sporting arms" and would have to refund all taxes collected as a result of the sales of them and the ammo used in them. Since these taxes have been disbursed to the states for wildlife conservation and hunting, they would have to require that the states give them back.

Do you think the states that received (and already spent) these funds might object to that?
I do.

Game over, BATFE pwned!

 

[chizuck]

WOW.
Gun control and CCW should be simple. to get concealed carry it should be background check, fingerprints etc. but it shouldn't be up to the state to regulate it it should be a federal permit. (oh but that would take revenue from the state too bad) if the state doesn't support it they shouldn't get federal funding. if everyone had a federal CCW (not FFL) the law should be you can buy a firearm wherever within the U.S. importation should be regulated on firearms (not for reasons of sporting purpose but to protect our gun economy in US) since we don't want the market to be flooded with cheap guns which eventually end up in the hands of bad guys. (most of the time) you don't see gang bangers or robbers using high end weapons generally speaking. on full automatic weapons, class 3 etc. There should be some form of control on that as well, so we don't have a revert to violence by force (mafia types) that's too may bullets carelessly aimed about causing collateral. On this there should be like a flat 200 dollar fee every so often 3-5 years and additional screening i.e. mental eval. should be done. but then add it to your concealed permit as an identifier, like a motorcycle endorsement on a drivers license. Law's should be simple and concise not needing an attorney/litigator to understand so everyone knows it. pretty simple. as far as explosives, thats a class of its own!! larger weapons like deck guns etc. come on now do we really need them? (by deck guns i'm talking anything bigger than a 50 bmg. unless you have an old collector's tank or something you want to fire blanks or training rounds or something, but how many folks have those and where would you go to shoot it? honestly though, we have the 2nd amendment for a reason but we have these crazy reg.s that the old government law is you can add but not take away. and you can't just have guns without the ATF or similar agency because there has to be a balance. I feel this is fair, reasonable and logical. will it ever happen? probably not. but its a nice thought.

Your a nut. You seem to have no understanding of the 2 amendment. Any infringement on any of our constitutional rights is not tolerable. I think you need to spend some time learning your history of this once great country.

 

[Smokey85]

Right. The 1934 NFA... a law that was passed 5 years after the big St. Valentines Day massacre in 1929. And why did this gang battle take place? Why it was over illegal booze aka during Prohibition, a ban made via ammendment to the Constitution. An ammendment that was repealed in 1933. So if the cause of that gangster massacre, alcohol prohibition was reversed why did the government need to control firearms, especially those new "tommy guns" that could fire full auto?

Like i said I dont agree with it but it worked for that time period. if i was alive in those days, I would've owned a speak easy and had a gunstore above it.

 

[Flash]

The ATF likes to use the sporting purpose to control our arms. This is one regulation that needs to get changed. The shot gun with many shells and short barrel is one of the best guns for the female to protect her home with. It’s also one of the best for some males. There is not one gun that works efficiently for all people. When a law such as this hinders the law abiding sane person from acquiring what they need for protection of their home and family then it taking away their second amendment right! When the ATF decides if we can have a certain firearm or not the amount of shells it holds or it’s cosmetic looks it changes our right to a privilege and we should not stand for that. We need to get in contact with all of the organizations that say they are protecting our rights and bend there ear to the fact that this sporting test that the ATF uses is not constructional and they need to get that changed. I know how much money I send in to the organizations and know many of you do too. Let’s get them going on this as this is always going to be a pain in the rear.

 

[badnova]

This is the same tactic the Germans used before WWII. One step in the diarmerment of us

 

[chris61182]

Good news, it sounds like nothing is happening regarding Saiga-12s. I've seen 1st hand Wolf mention they're receiving imports and shipping to distributors/dealers, and they have been for at least two weeks (on their facebook page if you want to see it yourself). Also saw 2nd hand info from RAA on the Saiga-12 forums that importation has commenced, for that one you'll have to search it out yourself since I can't find the thread again.

Something else worth noting is that the BATF has shared a great deal of personal contact info about people who have commented on the study, Read your letter to the ATF regarding shotgun importation. - forum.Saiga-12.com