ATF says that shockwave, komrad, and other AOW or "Firearm" shotguns are now short barreled shotguns if a brace is attached

[ilikegunspdx]

Weird fallout of brace rule. Shotguns are outside the rule but when they reclassified braces they said that supersedes all previous rulings and that if you have an aow or firearm shotgun with a brace it is an sbs as of 1-31-2023. Weird gotcha that popel should be aware of. This came up yesterday and today in both of ATF's virtual trainings on the brace rule.

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[Knobgoblin]

Glad I bought mine in .410 , since it's basically a toy anyway.

 

[CLT65]

Would that apply to one as purchased, or only with a brace on it? Why would anyone even put a brace on a Shockwave?

I don't own one, but I have found myself wondering what advantage they have over a regular old 18" barrel pump with a pistol grip. As I understand it, the 14" Shockwave with the bird's head grip is the same OAL as an 18" model 500 with a pistol grip, and the 500 holds more rounds. I guess they look cool, maybe the grip is more comfortable? That's all I could come up with.

Edit: I wasn't aware of the Komrad shotgun, never saw one before. Looks like the brace in pretty integral.

 

[CountryGent]

if you have an aow or firearm shotgun it is an sbs as of 1-31-2023.

Smooth-bore AOWs turning SBS? Where can this be read? Thanks.

 

[User 1234]

Pages 47-48 of the newly published regulation.

And in Washington there isn’t an option to register a Komrad as an SBS. Also can’t register it as an AOW because in the ATF’s view it was originally a shotgun. Can’t simply throw the brace away and claim it never had a brace or stock because then it is under 26” so not a Title 1 firearm. Legally anyway. I’m not a cheerleader for these laws and regulations, just making observations.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Smooth-bore AOWs turning SBS? Where can this be read? Thanks.

No clue on the written part but here are the two questions from todays second training. At yesterday's second training 2 different panelists said "it is now an sbs" "it would be an sbs" but today they are saying "likely to be a sbs" so they may have got some input from the attorneys after that first days training.

Audio_02_01_2023_22_01_48.mp3

• ilikegunspdx
• Feb 1, 2023

Audio_02_01_2023_22_00_00.mp3

• ilikegunspdx
• Feb 1, 2023

 

[The Heretic]

Would that apply to one as purchased, or only with a brace on it? Why would anyone even put a brace on a Shockwave?

For recoil control - the recoil is significant, especially with a 3" magnum load.

As I understand it, the 14" Shockwave with the bird's head grip is the same OAL as an 18" model 500 with a pistol grip, and the 500 holds more rounds.

No - the Shockwave 590 with a 14" barrel is almost 2" shorter than a 500 with an 18.5" barrel (the 18.5" barrel is the shortest that Mossberg sells the 500 with). Even the bullpup 500 is 28.5" long - I used to own one and compared to the Shockwave it is a clunky bulky heavy shotgun.

FWIW - you can buy a Shockwave with an 18.5" barrel and it is still a "firearm", not legally a shotgun.

 

[The Heretic]

Pages 47-48 of the newly published regulation.

And in Washington there isn’t an option to register a Komrad as an SBS. Also can’t register it as an AOW because in the ATF’s view it was originally a shotgun. Can’t simply throw the brace away and claim it never had a brace or stock because then it is under 26” so not a Title 1 firearm. Legally anyway. I’m not a cheerleader for these laws and regulations, just making observations.

Nor is there any "amnesty" offer of a free stamp for these SBS's

 

[FireArm]

the ATF
....
gun owners

 

[CLT65]

For recoil control - the recoil is significant, especially with a 3" magnum load.


No - the Shockwave 590 with a 14" barrel is almost 2" shorter than a 500 with an 18.5" barrel (the 18.5" barrel is the shortest that Mossberg sells the 500 with). Even the bullpup 500 is 28.5" long - I used to own one and compared to the Shockwave it is a clunky bulky heavy shotgun.

FWIW - you can buy a Shockwave with an 18.5" barrel and it is still a "firearm", not legally a shotgun.

Thank you, I learned something. I've never shot a Shockwave or the like, but I've had a Mossberg 500 since the '80s. I bought a pistol grip for it way back when. It may look cool but I would not consider it a practical gun with just the pistol grip, not fun to shoot either!

Anyhow, sorry for the wayward semi-off-topic post. If the Shockwave class of guns is more ergonomic and practical, then I could understand why people like them. Is the Shockwave as sold, without a brace, affected by this new rule?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

... Is the Shockwave as sold, without a brace, affected by this new rule?

No, according to the atf training anyway.

Re pistol grip on mossberg 500, pistol grip with side folding stocks work well.

 

[The Heretic]

Is the Shockwave as sold, without a brace, affected by this new rule?

Not yet, but the version of the rule I read (before being put on the register - I have not read the one in the register, yet), has started referring to these "firearms" as "pistol grip shotguns", saying that is common for the ATF "experts" to refer to them that way. Since this is how they think of these firearms, I would not be surprised if a future ruling tries to change the legal definition of these to an SBS.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Not yet, but the version of the rule I read (before being put on the register - I have not read the one in the register, yet), has started referring to these "firearms" as "pistol grip shotguns", saying that is common for the ATF "experts" to refer to them that way. Since this is how they think of these firearms, I would not be surprised if a future ruling tries to change the legal definition of these to an SBS.

I think you're right. Braces are the gateway drug for power mad ATF and their enablers/puppeteers/bosses the Biden administration. If they get away with brace rule they will push the boundaries of what they control farther. IMO all of this is laying the foundation for "assault weapons" in the future.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Suggest listen to the 43:55 mark of this video please because it is the longest and best explanation from atf. This was from the day 1 training.

Another example of atf explaining effect on AOWs is at the 31:37 mark

 

[drstrangelove]

Pages 47-48 of the newly published regulation.

And in Washington there isn’t an option to register a Komrad as an SBS. Also can’t register it as an AOW because in the ATF’s view it was originally a shotgun. Can’t simply throw the brace away and claim it never had a brace or stock because then it is under 26” so not a Title 1 firearm. Legally anyway. I’m not a cheerleader for these laws and regulations, just making observations.

So is your best bet if u own one of these to just get an 18” barrel and normal stock and have a home defense shotgun? I never bought one, so it’s just an academic question.

 

[jlynblackmore]

Weird fallout of brace rule. Shotguns are outside the rule but when they reclassified braces they said that supersedes all previous rulings and that if you have an aow or firearm shotgun with a brace it is an sbs as of 1-31-2023. Weird gotcha that popel should be aware of. This came up yesterday and today in both of ATF's virtual trainings on the brace rule.

I called 6 different ATF field offices today, after not getting any answer at the first five the Texas field office answered.
after getting the runaround about whether or not my komrad would fall under the new law. I was given the number to a head agent.
This agent said that basically it will be so hard to make one legally used (can’t be adjustable, sites that you can see through when your arm is extended, has to strap fully around your forearm)so that no matter what gun a brace is on it will be considered a stock.But even though I bought it registered as an AWO it doesn’t matter if it has a brace it’s a SBS and if I take the brace off of it, it’s still a SBS so my komrad will have to be filed As a short barrel shotgun because the barrel is shorter than 18 1/2 inches.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I called 6 different ATF field offices today, after not getting any answer at the first five the Texas field office answered.
after getting the runaround about whether or not my komrad would fall under the new law. I was given the number to a head agent.
This agent said that basically it will be so hard to make one legally used (can’t be adjustable, sites that you can see through when your arm is extended, has to strap fully around your forearm)so that no matter what gun a brace is on it will be considered a stock.But even though I bought it registered as an AWO it doesn’t matter if it has a brace it’s a SBS and if I take the brace off of it, it’s still a SBS so my komrad will have to be filed As a short barrel shotgun because the barrel is shorter than 18 1/2 inches.

Damn that sucks. Sorry to hear it. I don't think k-usa even realizes the issue. I looked at their website today and all is normal Like before.

 

[jlynblackmore]

Damn that sucks. Sorry to hear it. I don't think k-usa even realizes the issue. I looked at their website today and all is normal

Yeah, classic firearms doesn’t have anything with a pistol brace right now, but Atlantic firearms still has several, including the komrad and the Spets 12 with braces
So I don’t know WTF is going on with that and of course could just be the ATF talking out their bubblegum because they want everything they can get their greedy little hands on, either way if I have to do it I will be waiting until the very last minute or maybe I’ll go boating.

 

[jlynblackmore]

This is from there web site , basically they can still sell them for now but then it’s on you !?

 

[User 1234]

I called 6 different ATF field offices today, after not getting any answer at the first five the Texas field office answered.
after getting the runaround about whether or not my komrad would fall under the new law. I was given the number to a head agent.
This agent said that basically it will be so hard to make one legally used (can’t be adjustable, sites that you can see through when your arm is extended, has to strap fully around your forearm)so that no matter what gun a brace is on it will be considered a stock.But even though I bought it registered as an AWO it doesn’t matter if it has a brace it’s a SBS and if I take the brace off of it, it’s still a SBS so my komrad will have to be filed As a short barrel shotgun because the barrel is shorter than 18 1/2 inches.

Just be glad you live in Oregon where you have that option. $200 is worth it for a semi auto SBS.