ATF rumors, sent some guys home at a Utah gun show

[Skier]

"18a. Do You Intend To Sell Firearms Only at Gun Shows? Yes (If yes, do not submit application)"

So, what if INTEND to sell them other places, but never get around to it?

 

[bolus]

So, what if INTEND to sell them other places, but never get around to it?

The ATF send an agent out to your place of business. You have to be in the business of selling guns for a living. They can and will inspect your record book. Given that they have a tendency to raid and confiscate everything they can and ask questions later I would not want to be caught lying on that form.

Did anyone else ask them? I sent their licensing department an email last week quoting the Whitehouse's FAQ on getting a license to sell at gun shows and then the form 7 application saying you could not do that. I dont expect any sort of real answer though knowing its the ATF.

 

[DuneHopper]

I know I am going to sound stupid, but to me the whole thing is pretty stupid.
If I want to sell a new car I can't if I want to sell a used car I can and no one cares.
One could load and we have seen take a car and car huge damage to the public.

Yet the thought is?
If I want to sell my own used firearm I have to have and FFL to sell would be just silly.
That would be like telling me to get a license to sell my lawnmower?
This sheet is going the wrong direction we should be allowing more responsible private sales
not blocking it. Lets look at stats again the FBI is hard pressed to find any person whom bought a private gun and committed a crime. Thats because criminals buy guns like they buy drugs from other criminals. Most criminals are smart enough to not want a trail even if that is you.
Because now if your gun is used in a crime you know what they look like. The only time a criminal will buy private is when they are trying to rip you off. SB941 ??? Still not one frucking arrest not a one .........diddly . nada ! A few of us have met for sales with a few that may try and they fail not because of a law because of sellers due diligence.

FLL to sell my guns is stupid. A FFL should only exist for brand new sales and even then the reasoning behind it is pretty stupid. But to have a private person be required for a FFL is stupid beyond words as it solves nothing. Sure on paper the feel good laws appear somewhat practical just like going to the DMV witha birth certicate make sense the first time but at every renewal ?? Thats retarded. HEY, DMV, its me in the license you gave me, thats good enough to drive around get a ticket with but not renew ? Just more BS laws.
I think we need to require a license to sell B.S..

DH

 

[bnsaibum]

How many of those who have read the recent Executive Action on guns noticed that while there was a lot of language about "engaged in the business" and how it is defined and they would like it to be defined, but then failed to mention that "engaged in the business" is further defined by the very next numbered paragraph?

18 U.S.C. 44 §921 (a) As used in this chapter—(21) The term "engaged in the business" means—(C)as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

(22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term "terrorism" means activity, directed against United States persons, which—

(A) is committed by an individual who is not a national or permanent resident alien of the United States;

(B) involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life which would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States; and

(C) is intended—

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.

They're trying to pull a fast one and the American public is allowing it to happen through ignorance, apathy and emotional manipulation.

 

[dobeman]

at the Hillsboro show this past weekend, there were at least two different tables with folks selling a quantity of guns with no FFL. They had Oregon state forms to fill out for background check.

 

[Varmit]

at the Hillsboro show this past weekend, there were at least two different tables with folks selling a quantity of guns with no FFL. They had Oregon state forms to fill out for background check.

You just answered this whole column!
An individual selling to another individual will not require a background check.
THOROUGH Background checks and FOLLOWING UP ON THEM, could have prevented most of these recent shootings.

 

[Camelfilter]

You just answered this whole column!
An individual selling to another individual will not require a background check.
THOROUGH Background checks and FOLLOWING UP ON THEM, could have prevented most of these recent shootings.

No. You are mistaken.

Background check is required, as your quoted poster stated. It is the same exact background check which is done at a regular shop.

What could have prevented the recent shootings? Government employees doing the job which they stated they do.

FBI in the case of the Fla one, following up on terroristic threats.

USAF in the case of the Texas church, reporting to NICS.

Remember it was an armed civilian in Texas, armed with a civilian AR15 mind you, which ended that. Prevented the killer from going up to the next towns church.

 

[KKG]

The BATFE has been trying to get a handle on the correct definition of Gun Dealer since they were the ATF!!! And, they have yet to come up with an answer that isn't shot down by the Courts or other Politicians. While it's kinda like the term "Car Dealer" or "Used Car Dealer"(I don't remember what the State finally came up with for a Number but BATFE tried to apply it to Gun Dealers and we're shot down once again) here in WA it seems that Pretty Much nobody can agree and until they do, it's a Dead Issue.

 

[Heyjoe]

You just answered this whole column!
An individual selling to another individual will not require a background check.
THOROUGH Background checks and FOLLOWING UP ON THEM, could have prevented most of these recent shootings.

Nope.

"Could have"??

I could have been a billionaire.
I could have married a super model.

The killers could have not killed.

 

[Colts4me]

I want you guys to know that I am knew here but it doesn't mean I am a bad guy. I voice my opinions that may upset folks but it's just who I am. I always post it's opinion and only call it fact when I can back it up. However the world of fake news and liars has hit the net hard and I can understand newcomers being suspect. I am new here but 65 years of age so I am old in reality, what would I gain by telling lies to you guys?