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From KAK

Here's the PDF for the version 1

Here's the PDF for version 2

It should auto-open into the PDF, and then you can download.

The 1.0 still doesn't match what I have. Mine looks like the top pic in the 2.0 letter. Rather than "assume" it is approved because it is similar to the 1.0, I'm going to have to go to the safe, take out my 10.5" and look at the blade.
 
The 1.0 still doesn't match what I have. Mine looks like the top pic in the 2.0 letter. Rather than "assume" it is approved because it is similar, I'm going to have to go to the safe, take out my 10.5" and look at the blade.

If you print both, you are covered. It also shows actual ATF approval of both versions.
Compared to the implied approval that it appears SB-Tactical hope they have.
 
Agree. Reading between the lines and my experience with government agencies tells me it's probably more of an atf workload issue and a turf pis$ing match.

Sb tactical assumes all their braces are atf compliant cuz they r similar to the 2 approved ones. ATF says "not so fast young man, we didn't approve all these products, we have only approved these 2. We need to pee on each one individually."
Unless SB Tactical has a SOT or FFL status and have their own firearms that they can send in with the accessories, they won't get approval/decision letters according to this, from 2018..


So, again... exactly how are they supposed to get approval letters for the new braces made/designed after 2018 if the ATF themselves says they won't make decisions/approval letters for the specific accessories unless they're attached to a firearm? :s0092: This would requre a FFLmanufacturer/maker's tier I believe... I could be wrong.. but the important thing is that's 23 firearms with accessory devices that the ATF wants submitted in order to get approval letters.. and that might be firearms that won't ever come back to the company if its not approved/classified :s0092:
 
If you print both, you are covered. It also shows actual ATF approval of both versions.
Compared to the implied approval that it appears SB-Tactical hope they have.

Well, mine is different than those in both letters.

I'm looking at the KAK website to try to get a better grip on it. Maybe they updated the 1.0....
 
Unless SB Tactical has a SOT or FFL status and have their own firearms that they can send in with the accessories, they won't get approval/decision letters according to this, from 2018..


So, again... exactly how are they supposed to get approval letters for the new braces made/designed after 2018 if the ATF themselves says they won't make decisions/approval letters for the specific accessories unless they're attached to a firearm? :s0092: This would requre a FFLmanufacturer/maker's tier I believe... I could be wrong.. but the important thing is that's 23 firearms with accessory devices that the ATF wants submitted in order to get approval letters.. and that might be firearms that won't ever come back to the company if its not approved/classified :s0092:
I hear what ur saying but I'm sure sb tactical can afford it. How much is a basic AR anyway? $350? Oil companies spend $200k or more for each formulation tested by manufacturers to meet their specs and it may not be approved. It's part of the cost of doing business if they want to claim its "approved".
 
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According to the Shockwave website, the model with the 3 strap holes is covered by the original 1.0 letter. Yet, would this be them "assuming" that their updated model is approved because it is substantially the same, but they never submitted the update???
 
I'm sure sb tactical can afford it. How much is a basic AR anyway? $350?
Not these days :rolleyes: if they want to be dicks, they could have just sent only the lowers with the accessories :rolleyes: after all, the lower is the firearm according to the ATF :D but again, I'm not quite clear on their guidelines for companies to send in firearms, if they have to be FFLs/SOT/FFL Manufacturers? (Last I remember, SB Tactical does not sell/make AR15s, only accessories.
 
Hmm.. I guess this pushes me to an SBR sooner than I had anticipated on what I have in the safe.
Not too concerned at this moment but what I have would be a lot more fun as an SBR.

Until then, IWNFC.
 
What is the problem with using a pistol brace on an SBR?
There is no problem with using a "pistol brace" on a non-SBR rifle either, while calling it a pistol because it has the pistol brace. There is no length limit on the barrel of a "pistol", so if I have a 16" barrel on an AR and it has a pistol brace on it, then it is still non-NFA. If the ATF tries to say it is a rifle because the brace is really a "shoulder stock"? Ok, it's a rifle then, but not an SBR - but when I put it together it was a pistol?

The reason I do not go the SBR route is (partly) because, now that I am retired, I want to travel with my firearms and I don't want to have to inform the ATF every time I do travel, where I am traveling to and so on. The other reason I just do not want to be on their NFA list - yet - if I am going to get a NFA device, it will be a suppressor.

As for someone's observation that a brace sometimes cost as much as tax stamp; maybe, but the same shoulder stock, assuming that you want something similar, is probably going to cost close to the same. E.G., the PDW type of brace vs PDW stock - the cost is roughly the same.

There are four benefits to an AR/AK pistol with a brace;

1) For less cost than an NFA SBR of the same configuration (except the stock vs. brace), you can have an AR/AK with a barrel shorter than 16".

2) You can legally conceal it loaded if you have a CHL/CWP/et. al. or you are in a "constitutional carry" state.

3) You can travel with it across state lines without notifying the ATF every time you do

4) You can have the AR/AK in a state that allows AR/AK pistols but not SBRs.

Finally, the firearm is not on some NFA list. For some of us that is a benefit. Also, family members don't have to deal with the NFA issues should something happen to me, and I can loan/sell it to them without the gov. knowing anything about it.

As for the ATF "approving" a brace. You can say that some of the braces are not approved, but if they have not been submitted for approval, they are not unapproved either - the ATF has not made a decision one way or the other - as far as I can tell.

The ATF should have to approve/re-approve each and every brace because of some slight change? How is a manufacturer of braces supposed to know what crosses the line here? A color change? A change to the fabric of the strap? A change to the rubber/plastic in the brace? The addition of a hole for a QD sling? The attachment of the brace to a different firearm than the one submitted to the ATF?
 
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Alright, as I stated elsewhere I do all I can for our 2A rights behind the scenes, but this brace business is giving me a headache . (Thankfully, good conversation and the hammer having not exactly dropped makes it less fear mongering than it could be)

Having only JUST dipped my toes in this whole AR pistol business. I want to resolve this issue swiftly, and with some kind of (nothing lasts forever) permanence.

A: Order an 'approved brace' before noon (KAK, SB15, etc) for the time being
B: Lengthen barrel, convert to rifle because <5" is not a big deal for me. (New upper$$$, barrel$$, or pinned device $ longer than 4.5"... Does that exist?)
C: wait...
 
There is no problem with using a "pistol brace" on a non-SBR rifle either, while calling it a pistol because it has the pistol brace. There is no length limit on the barrel of a "pistol", so if I have a 16" barrel on an AR and it has a pistol brace on it, then it is still non-NFA is ATF tries to say it is a rifle because the brace is really a "shoulder stock".

The reason I do not go the SBR route is (partly) because, now that I am retired, I want to travel with my firearms and I don't want to have to inform the ATF every time I do travel, where I am traveling to and so on. The other reason I just do not want to be on their NFA list - yet - if I am going to get a NFA device, it will be a suppressor.

As for someone's observation that a brace sometimes cost as much as tax stamp; maybe, but the same shoulder stock, assuming that you want something similar, is probably going to cost close to the same. E.G., the PDW type of brace vs PDW stock - the cost is roughly the same.

There are four benefits to an AR/AK pistol with a brace;

1) For less cost than an NFA SBR of the same configuration (except the stock vs. brace), you can have an AR/AK with a barrel shorter than 16".

2) You can legally conceal it loaded if you have a CHL/CWP/et. al. or you are in a "constitutional carry" state.

3) You can travel with it across state lines without notifying the ATF every time you do

4) You can have the AR/AK in a state that allows AR/AK pistols but not SBRs.

Finally, the firearm is not on some NFA list. For some of us that is a benefit. Also, family members don't have to deal with the NFA issues should something happen to me, and I can loan/sell it to them without the gov. knowing anything about it.

As for the ATF "approving" a brace. You can say that some of the braces are not approved, but if they have not been submitted for approval, they are not unapproved either - they ATF has not made a decision one way or the other - as far as I can tell.

The ATF should have to approve each and every brace because of some slight change. How is a manufacturer of braces supposed to know what crosses the line here? A color change? A change to the fabric of the strap? A change to the rubber/plastic in the brace? The addition of a hole for a QD sling? The attachment of the brace to a different firearm than the one submitted to the ATF?
Agree, also don't forget about when it's time to sell. I read somewhere that selling a sbr adds a lot of time to the transfer process (the quote was as much as a year but I don't know if that is still the proper time frame).

I also read a legal opinion from a lawyer saying you can't change caliber on an sbr. Don't know if that is legit or not and may not apply for most anyway.
 

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