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ilikegunspdx

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I put my comment in. I made my case of cheek welding/bracing and that there is a myriad of ways one can shoot a pistol.. there is no definite, textbook way. Single, supported, right/left, arm cruxed, off a barricade/support, benched or braced.. I also made note all agents use support hands to stabalize their idea if a “typical service pistol” not a single agent uses strictly one hand.

*I noted the actual dangers of mandatory straps and that it should be up to the end user but a design feature included none the less as that is a feature of “some” braces. (my point that a hand locked into place, difficult to clear a malfunction and makes handling more awkward and ups end user risk when it comes to safety.)

*I made defense of adjustability and various differing body mechanics paired with storage and transport and that ultimatly if the fear is easily consealable firearms.. criminals will simply do this regardless of the law. That most of us enjoy the adjustability for comfort, storage and transport.

The more civil comments submitted the longer the process takes them. As MAC stated with a rep from GOA.. our numbers of logical, civil comments aids our case when this all goes to court.
Somewhere there need to be a laundry list of comments like this so people have a list of ideas to draw from when constructing their own comments.

I think specifically we need to target things on the scorecard which contradict things they say are "o.k." Fe if they say it is "ok" to use brace as a cheek rest, we should identify all items on the checklist that prevent it being used as a cheekrest.
 

ZA_Survivalist

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Somewhere there need to be a laundry list of comments like this so people have a list of ideas to draw from when constructing their own comments.
Agreed. Hammering specific points may bring about a complete scrapping of the worksheet as it is poorly thought out.
Beyond that, I think manufacturers arent pushing cheek braces as that will be the gen2 workaround down the road. Adjustable tubes but no lower blade for potential “shouldering”
 

ilikegunspdx

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Agreed. Hammering specific points may bring about a complete scrapping of the worksheet as it is poorly thought out.
Beyond that, I think manufacturers arent pushing cheek braces as that will be the gen2 workaround down the road. Adjustable tubes but no lower blade for potential “shouldering”
I agree that is the way forward. Focus on arm stability and cheek rest (what appears to be acceptable for atf at the current time).
 

ilikegunspdx

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All these points systems and related blather just serve to illustrate how outrageously stupid NFA34 is. Does anyone, in their right mind, think that completion of that worksheet and industry compliance with said translates to "shazam, violent crime reduced!" It is a farce, but one us taxpayers get to pick up the tab for. :rolleyes:
Imo u are right, the core of the problem is the definitions from the 1934 NFA and trying to somehow shoehorn modern weapons into those definitions. It doesn't work, that is why ATF has so many contradictory rulings/statements on it. And now the scorecard makes it even more confusing and convoluted. Hard for even ATF individuals to decide definitively what fits or. It, much less the average gun owner.
 
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I agree. Hammer the points...but remember the top of their forms state (including poor grammar and punctuation): "The BATF reserves the right to preclude classification as a pistol with a "stabilizing braces" for any firearm that achieves an apparent qualifying score but is an attempt to make a "short-barreled rifle" and circumvent the GCA or NFA."

That renders this entire points form moot and says that, even if you follow the points system and make a lawful pistol, they will still consider you felon if they want to, and based solely on their whim. In a nutshell: "Even if you are legal, you are illegal if we say so." -BATF

That is the most offensive part of this entire charade. It can have drastic effects on rights, due process, and the presumption of innocence for years to come, unless this steaming pile of garbage is stopped now.
 

ilikegunspdx

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Wow reading some of the comments on braces many people just cuss out ATF. Cussing out ATF for being in existence for example accomplishes nothing. Other comments read like a stream of consciousness forum post. What is a federal agency going to do with that? Ignore it I would guess. Some comments have good points but are buried in dribble. I only viewed a couple pages worth so I hope there are more reasoned arguments in some comments, I just didn't see any in what I read. I guess the volume of comments against is a good thing overall though.

I don't understand why commenters can't use just a bit of professionalism so that the comment is taken seriously and not ignored. I mean if u were in a court of law u wouldn't say, "WTF judge, do u have sh!t for brains?" It just doesn't help anything if you want to be taken seriously.
FYI if interested you can read the comments by clicking on the "read the x public comments" blue hyperlink in upper right here:
 
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“The proposed criteria is a form of government-sanctioned disablism in nature. Pistol braces are meant to aid those in shooting a pistol one-handed who would otherwise have immense difficulty in doing so. When pistol braces were made it was a blessing to the physically disabled and frail community, as it reduced barriers to their practicing of the second amendment. Braces give increased access to means of self-defense, thereby making vulnerable populations less likely to be victimized. This proposal reverses that liberation in a needlessly confusing manner. The criteria grading sheet is not clear, logical, concise or easily accessible for the average American. With over 3 million braces in circulation this proposed criteria could result in an already vulnerable population being subjected to oppressive government overreach. This overreach can land an otherwise well-meaning vulnerable individual in prison with a felony. The grading criteria is highly subjective and not easily enforceable given the sheer number of braces in circulation. I imagine it will only be a matter of time before the ADA gets involved in opposition of this discriminatory proposal which only targets otherwise law-abiding disabled or frail Americans, by impeding on their second amendment rights. It is not the government's place to dictate specific uses of equipment intended to aid a physically disabled/vulnerable individual in practicing his second amendment right. I.e. an individual adjusting for length of pull, does not mean they are circumventing the NFA, but rather making the firearm more comfortable and safe to fire dependent on that individual's physique. Additionally, placing an income-barrier in the form of a $200 tax stamp on top of the already costly means of self-defense, would be oppressive in nature towards vulnerable populations this product was intended for.”
 
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Don't forget to comment on the Frame/Receiver grab too!
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...ent-on-atfs-new-frame-or-receiver-rule-today/

Sadly, MTG's bill getting through is as likely as my fat a** knocking up a Playmate of the Year, but it's still a fight that needs to be had, and we need to KEEP pushing it as a pressure-point every year just to remind ATF that they continue to exist only because Congress chooses to ALLOW it and can yank the choke chain or dissolve them anytime it finds the will to do so.
 
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